Disconnect outside dwelling terrible idea!

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gene6

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
Electrician
Just install alarm contact in the enclosure door and tie it into the rest of your wired alarm system.
 
jimport

jimport

Senior Member
Location
Outside Baltimore Maryland
Occupation
Master Electrician
I know one of the pushes came from the IAFF for the emergency disconnect, but never saw suppression operations on hold until the power was secured. It is one of the priorities, but not the highest.
 
J

jim dungar

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Wisconsin
Occupation
PE (Retired) - Power Systems
jimport said:
I know one of the pushes came from the IAFF for the emergency disconnect, but never saw suppression operations on hold until the power was secured. It is one of the priorities, but not the highest.
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Several of the departments in this area have policies where their activities are restricted until power is disconnected. Of course it will probably be centuries before all of the existing residences have been upgraded to outside disconnects.
 
electrofelon

electrofelon

Senior Member
Location
Cherry Valley NY, Seattle, WA
jim dungar said:
Several of the departments in this area have policies where their activities are restricted until power is disconnected. Of course it will probably be centuries before all of the existing residences have been upgraded to outside disconnects.
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And, just a wild guess on the statistics, but the houses with the exterior disconnects are probably newer and the least likely to have fires.
 
tortuga

tortuga

Code Historian
Location
Oregon
Occupation
Electrical Design
Gas stations usually have a big red estop button anyone can walk by and push. Vandalism does not seem to be an issue.
 
G

gene6

Senior Member
Location
NY
Occupation
Electrician
Just use a Tamper dye on your outside disconnects, firefighters will have gloves.

 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
One of the utilities in my area that has smart meters will do a remote disconnect when the dispatch center calls them for a response to a fire. They remotely open the contact in the meter, eliminating the hazard on the load side of the meter. When they get on scene they will often cut the hot conductors at the pole for an overhead service if the FD is doing roof or ladder operations.
 
C

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
Living in California all my life having an exterior disconnect is the norm. I never hear of kids/thieves shutting the service disconnect off. I'm sure its happened but not a common thing.

As far as killing the power to disable security systems. If you have a security system that doesn't have back up power that is your choice.

If your security system is dependent on your home internet connection you can install a UPS on that equipment. Also the copper/coax/fiber drop from your internet provider could easily be cut by the thief.

My security/fire system uses a hardware connection to my network as the primary communication but it also has a cellular backup if that connection is lost. There are also (4) 12V 7AH batteries providing backup power to the panel and expansion modules.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
electrofelon said:
Don, I have to disagree with you on most of that. Would it really be that hard for fire depts to keep a face shield and gloves in the truck and get 20 minutes of training on this? You think the POCO meter people are highly trained with years of experience? Doesnt the very slight risk of pulling a meter pale in comparison to entering a burning building, driving an emergency vehicle fast thru traffic, potentially working at night in wet environments with poor visibility, etc?? And arc flash on a resi 120/240 service? Really?
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For the average dwelling application, I would think the equipment firefighters already wear when fighting fires is likely suitable protection for pulling meters. Worst case they can get even more safety distance by cutting seal, removing rings, covers, etc. then finish removal of meter with say an axe or other tool.

What can get them into hidden trouble, though not quite so common on average dwelling application is pulling a CT meter thinking it will disconnect power in the structure.
 
R

RumRunner

Senior Member
Location
SCV Ca, USA
Occupation
Retired EE
don_resqcapt19 said:
One of the utilities in my area that has smart meters will do a remote disconnect when the dispatch center calls them for a response to a fire. They remotely open the contact in the meter, eliminating the hazard on the load side of the meter. When they get on scene they will often cut the hot conductors at the pole for an overhead service if the FD is doing roof or ladder operations.
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That’s not the purpose of SMART METERS.
It is basically designed for the benefit of utility providers.
In essence, to enable them to monitor the clients’ consumption.
At worst—they can be source of fire.
Checkout this forensic investigation. Fires caused by these smart meters are held in wraps (kept secret) to save POCO from potential litigation.
No one can force them to further divulge there findings to the
public.

Check this in-depth analysis on why it is the way that it is.
Smart Meter is not a safety feature:

https://smartgridawareness.org/2016...ice person to connect or disconnect the meter
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
RumRunner said:
That’s not the purpose of SMART METERS.
It is basically designed for the benefit of utility providers.
In essence, to enable them to monitor the clients’ consumption.
At worst—they can be source of fire.
Checkout this forensic investigation. Fires caused by these smart meters are held in wraps (kept secret) to save POCO from potential litigation.
No one can force them to further divulge there findings to the
public.

Check this in-depth analysis on why it is the way that it is.
Smart Meter is not a safety feature:

https://smartgridawareness.org/2016/08/25/how-the-smart-meter-remote-disconnect-can-cause-fires/#:~:text= As described by one utility company, the,service person to connect or disconnect the meter
Click to expand...
On rural power systems around here nearly all the meters (smart meters) are on utility owned structures. Some of them have taken over the system in some the small villages, many existing meters in those villages are on the structure they serve, many that get upgraded are going on POCO structures and the load side conductors are customer responsibility to maintain as needed after that move of the meter.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
RumRunner said:
That’s not the purpose of SMART METERS.
It is basically designed for the benefit of utility providers.
In essence, to enable them to monitor the clients’ consumption.
At worst—they can be source of fire.
Checkout this forensic investigation. Fires caused by these smart meters are held in wraps (kept secret) to save POCO from potential litigation.
No one can force them to further divulge there findings to the
public.

Check this in-depth analysis on why it is the way that it is.
Smart Meter is not a safety feature:

https://smartgridawareness.org/2016/08/25/how-the-smart-meter-remote-disconnect-can-cause-fires/#:~:text= As described by one utility company, the,service person to connect or disconnect the meter
Click to expand...
No idea about that, but most all meters in Illinois are smart meters per the Illinois Commerce Commission requirements, and the company with the most customers in the state is the one that does the remote disconnect.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
don_resqcapt19 said:
No idea about that, but most all meters in Illinois are smart meters per the Illinois Commerce Commission requirements, and the company with the most customers in the state is the one that does the remote disconnect.
Click to expand...
They probably using it the most for those that don't pay bills on time and need to be disconnected then reconnected after paying the bill on a nearly monthly basis. But yes can come in handy for remote disconnecting for fire fighters. Probably still a good idea to send a tech out to physically disconnect anything that might need it, but can remote disconnect at meter before tech arrives and allow firefighters some extra level of safety at least from the inside wiring.
 
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