Disconnected Neutrals and circuits still hot

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solardirect

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We install Battery Based Storage with Solar Energy Systems - this requires moving circuits into a dedicated critical loads panel (both the L1 and Neutral wire for each circuit breaker) in order to isolate them from the Main Service Panel. In a recent installation, we encountered an older home (with a new owner) with some neutral issues - so we disconnected every single neutral in the Main Service Panel, and all of the loads still were energized from their breakers without any neutrals hooked up. Most if not all circuits are run in EMT conduit, it seems that maybe the metal conduit could be acting as the neutral even though they are White Neutral wires for each circuit.

Our specialty is solar and batteries, so this electrical issue has us stumped. Hoping someone can offer advise on how to troubleshoot or explain what might be happening, and any actions needed to correct it. Also, is the issue a safety/fire concern? Obviously the homeowner doesn't want to hear that his entire electrical service could be installed wrong, but having some third party substantiation would help build trust that this it is not a problem often encountered (unless it is), or that we created.
 
solardirect said:
In a recent installation, we encountered an older home (with a new owner) with some neutral issues - so we disconnected every single neutral in the Main Service Panel, and all of the loads still were energized from their breakers without any neutrals hooked up.
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Are you saying that the loads on the circuits still worked (not to be expected) or that the hots were still hot (to be expected)? If the circuits were two hots that share one neutral (MWBC's) then the loads could still have power with the neutrals disconnected, but that can cause voltage imbalances that can do damage.

In any case, you should never​ disconnect neutrals with the breakers on. Qualified electricians would know this, and never just "disconnect every neutral" in a panel with the breakers still on.
 
solardirect said:
We install Battery Based Storage with Solar Energy Systems - this requires moving circuits into a dedicated critical loads panel (both the L1 and Neutral wire for each circuit breaker) in order to isolate them from the Main Service Panel. In a recent installation, we encountered an older home (with a new owner) with some neutral issues - so we disconnected every single neutral in the Main Service Panel, and all of the loads still were energized from their breakers without any neutrals hooked up. Most if not all circuits are run in EMT conduit, it seems that maybe the metal conduit could be acting as the neutral even though they are White Neutral wires for each circuit.

Our specialty is solar and batteries, so this electrical issue has us stumped. Hoping someone can offer advise on how to troubleshoot or explain what might be happening, and any actions needed to correct it. Also, is the issue a safety/fire concern? Obviously the homeowner doesn't want to hear that his entire electrical service could be installed wrong, but having some third party substantiation would help build trust that this it is not a problem often encountered (unless it is), or that we created.
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Your wording certainly raises questions.

Yes, if you disconnect the neutral to a circuit and leave the breaker on, you'll have typically 120V from neutral to ground. Therefore ... you don't do that. Another reason that you don't do it is that if you have multi-wire branch circuits (L1,L2, with shared neutral) and you lift the neutral and turn on the breakers, you'll likely fry whatever is connected to those breakers. While we're on the subject of MWBCs - because it's something I realized when I started relocating critical loads, and it's kind of a pain - if you have MWBCs you must relocate all three wires to the back up panel, or none at all. Yes, this sometimes limits the customer's choices of what to relocate in ways that no one anticipated.

If you're saying that all the loads worked after you lifted the neutrals and yet you didn't fry anything, then about the only possibly explanation I can think of is that some ignorant yahoo connected neutral to ground in every outlet and fixture in the house. But yeah, still call an electrician ... because you shouldn't have found that out that way.
 
I agree with the others, this is out of your area of expertise so you really need to employ an electrician to help with the issue.


Roger
 
solardirect said:
Most if not all circuits are run in EMT conduit.
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LarryFine said:
If the circuits were two hots that share one neutral (MWBC's) then the loads could still have power with the neutrals disconnected, but that can cause voltage imbalances that can do damage.
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I would think there probably are MWBCs since they are run in conduit. If it's an older house the neutrals are probably not identified.
 
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