Disconnecting means for disposal and dishwasher

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shortcircuit1

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Lets say if you have a garbage disposal and it is just hardwired without a receptacle under the sink.Per NEC i need to provide a disconnecting means with in sight.Now there is a control switch above the counter which is used to turn ON/OFF the disposal.So can i use that a disconnecting means or do i need to provide another disconnecting means which i dont see a reason why?
 
jumper said:
In general, yes.

One must remember that it must HP rated and marked as such.

IIRC, many 15A SP snap/toggle switches are 1/2 HP.
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Thanks!How about if we have a receptacle which is cord and plug connected for dishwasher then do we need to have a disconnect within sight because the receptacle is behind the dishwasher and considered not accessible?
 
shortcircuit1 said:
Thanks!How about if we have a receptacle which is cord and plug connected for dishwasher then do we need to have a disconnect within sight because the receptacle is behind the dishwasher and considered not accessible?
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Legal, unless you are under the 2014, then GFCI is required and if you used a GFCI receptacle instead of a GFCI breaker to protect the receptacle, the GFCI receptacle would have to be readily accessible.
 
jumper said:
Legal, unless you are under the 2014, then GFCI is required and if you used a GFCI receptacle instead of a GFCI breaker to protect the receptacle, the GFCI receptacle would have to be readily accessible.
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I had an interesting conversation with my coworkers and some are saying since you will be pulling out the dishwasher for the maintenance anyways so that cord and plug connected receptacle now becomes accessible so you dont need a disconnect.And it does make sense.But code says otherway. And i can ask the same question for the range and refrigerator.
 
shortcircuit1 said:
I had an interesting conversation with my coworkers and some are saying since you will be pulling out the dishwasher for the maintenance anyways so that cord and plug connected receptacle now becomes accessible so you dont need a disconnect.And it does make sense.But code says otherway. And i can ask the same question for the range and refrigerator.
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Your coworkers are correct. The receptacle is accessible. A GFCI receptacle has to be readily accessible, a regular one does not.

Note that a range must have a removable bottom drawer for the cord to be the disconnecting means.
 
jumper said:
Legal, unless you are under the 2014, then GFCI is required and if you used a GFCI receptacle instead of a GFCI breaker to protect the receptacle, the GFCI receptacle would have to be readily accessible.
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Is the GFCI receptacle for the dishwasher considered readily accessible if it is located under the sink?
 
Most inspectors say it is not accessible. One time way back when, I red-tagged a switch for a disposal because it was decora type and to make matters worse, it was installed horizontally. I had a real idiot boss at the time and he told me that I was being real "picky." I don't think that I was being picky. I think that I was enforcing NEC. This particular jurisdiction picked the stupidest person that they could manipulate to run the ship. Sad. I got it corrected, though.
 
So, a dish, disposal, refer, range, perhaps a larger stove vent hood, maybe one of those in-cab cuisinarts, a trash compactor , none of which are loto capable need a disco w/in sight.

Said disco need to, via 110.25 >>
The
provisions for locking shall remain in place with or without the
lock installed.
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Not an easy sale in mama pajama's kitchen....

so, why not take a peek @ 422.33 ??

Position a panel not in, but w/in sight of the kitchen ,small w/lockable main

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
So, a dish, disposal, refer, range, perhaps a larger stove vent hood, maybe one of those in-cab cuisinarts, a trash compactor , none of which are loto capable need a disco w/in sight.

Said disco need to, via 110.25 >>

Not an easy sale in mama pajama's kitchen....

so, why not take a peek @ 422.33 ??

Position a panel not in, but w/in sight of the kitchen ,small w/lockable main

~RJ~
Click to expand...

Not totally understanding your point here, but I would like to.

Walk me through it. Slowly and clearly please, too tired to guess at witticisms, brain dead here.

First, what year NEC are we discussing? I do not have a 2017.
 
Sorry Jumper, six decades of ADD .....

Ok then, motorized stuff needs a disco, lots of motors in a kitchen , most appliances might have on/off switches but most are not lotto capable. So we have to provide a disco, sometimes a LOT of them, and they have to have the means of locking STAY on the disco.

Yes, one can lock a normal vs. decora switch, but according to 110.25, it would need to have One of These installed.

Not going to be an easy sell.....

And then there are so many appliances requiring disconnects.....i can think of many more past a DW

So, what's easy? Keep in mind i am an EC (Satan's spawn) , and see a kitchen panel w/in sight as a disco for it all, lockable main, done deal, hardwire all the appliances if you'd like

Do i pass inspection? :)

~RJ~
 
romex jockey said:
Sorry Jumper, six decades of ADD .....

Ok then, motorized stuff needs a disco, lots of motors in a kitchen , most appliances might have on/off switches but most are not lotto capable. So we have to provide a disco, sometimes a LOT of them, and they have to have the means of locking STAY on the disco.

Yes, one can lock a normal vs. decora switch, but according to 110.25, it would need to have One of These installed.

Not going to be an easy sell.....

And then there are so many appliances requiring disconnects.....i can think of many more past a DW

So, what's easy? Keep in mind i am an EC (Satan's spawn) , and see a kitchen panel w/in sight as a disco for it all, lockable main, done deal, hardwire all the appliances if you'd like

Do i pass inspection? :)

~RJ~
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First, ECs and Satan’s Spawn do not bother me for the most part, but Yanks in general creep me out totally.:D

Lemme think on this, I will actually seriously reply in morning. Good food for thought.
 
Coppersmith said:
Is the GFCI receptacle for the dishwasher considered readily accessible if it is located under the sink?
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Some EI's will tell you that if the GFCI receptacle is mounted in the rear of the sink cabinet it is only "accessible". However, if you bring it to the front of the cabinet then they consider it "readily accessible". Personally, I think that's a crock. You have to bend over and reach into the cabinet to pull the plug out of the receptacle anyway. Why should it matter whether the GFCI is in the front or the back of the cabinet ?

Anyway, getting back to the OP, with all the rules and regulations you have to comply with (i.e switch being LOTO capable, switch must be HP rated and labeled, etc.) why not just make the unit cord and plug attachable and install a receptacle and be done with it. Everyone here can give their opinions but obviously the EI has the final say. I think you're safe if you make it cord and plug attached.
 
goldstar said:
Some EI's will tell you that if the GFCI receptacle is mounted in the rear of the sink cabinet it is only "accessible". However, if you bring it to the front of the cabinet then they consider it "readily accessible". Personally, I think that's a crock. You have to bend over and reach into the cabinet to pull the plug out of the receptacle anyway. Why should it matter whether the GFCI is in the front or the back of the cabinet ?
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That is pretty dumb. I can put a GFCI receptacle on a counter and the plop the microwave right in front of it. Really no different. When the cabinet is empty the device is readily accessible.
 
goldstar said:
Some EI's will tell you that if the GFCI receptacle is mounted in the rear of the sink cabinet it is only "accessible". However, if you bring it to the front of the cabinet then they consider it "readily accessible". Personally, I think that's a crock. You have to bend over and reach into the cabinet to pull the plug out of the receptacle anyway. Why should it matter whether the GFCI is in the front or the back of the cabinet ?

Anyway, getting back to the OP, with all the rules and regulations you have to comply with (i.e switch being LOTO capable, switch must be HP rated and labeled, etc.) why not just make the unit cord and plug attachable and install a receptacle and be done with it. Everyone here can give their opinions but obviously the EI has the final say. I think you're safe if you make it cord and plug attached.
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Note that cord must be “suitable” to manufacturer and listed in instructions, 422.16(B)(2).
 
jumper said:
Note that cord must be “suitable” to manufacturer and listed in instructions, 422.16(B)(2).
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I understand that manufacturers have to put that wording into their instruction manual so that a HO, looking to save a few $$, doesn't connect the unit with lamp cord. But if we, as EC's, use SO or SJO cord and a plug why should we have to prove to an EI that this wire is suitable for the intended use ?
 
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