Dishonesty, Why Does it Pay?

[jmellc]

I think back over the years. 2 large companies I worked for were convicted of bid rigging on public jobs. Neither could bid on new public jobs for a time, I think 2 years. But both have done many public jobs since then. If any of us were stung by a contractor would we ever hire him again? I doubt it. Yet the government will do business with him again after a relative slap on the wrist, with no regard to wasting of taxpayers' money. How foolish can government officials be? Is there any limit?

 

[iwire]

Often the law requires they accept bids from contractors meeting certain conditions and in many cases their hands have been tied by laws that require using the lowest bidder.

 

[Ken9876]

I work for the government and I can tell you first hand that there are bad contractors and bad engineering firms working for the state. They mess up job after job and continue to work for the state, because of political connections they have. And at the end of the day that's all that matters.

 

[ceb58]

Its like Bob said, if they have met the requirements then by law they must be allowed to bid. And if they are the low bidder then so be it. I have worked for the State for over 22 years and I still cannot stop shaking my head some times at the things that go on.

 

[kwired]

I think back over the years. 2 large companies I worked for were convicted of bid rigging on public jobs. Neither could bid on new public jobs for a time, I think 2 years. But both have done many public jobs since then. If any of us were stung by a contractor would we ever hire him again? I doubt it. Yet the government will do business with him again after a relative slap on the wrist, with no regard to wasting of taxpayers' money. How foolish can government officials be? Is there any limit?

You don't suppose there is just as much or even more dishonesty from some government worker or elected official?

Small towns this kind of thing happens a lot. If they have a preferred contractor he will likely get the job whether it is right or wrong, they still need to accept bids. He does not have to be the lowest bid, they can choose which ever bidder they wish based on more than just price.

 

[stevenje]

You don't suppose there is just as much or even more dishonesty from some government worker or elected official?

Many years ago a few of us EC's were waiting in the parking lot of a government building for the government project manager to give us a pre-bid walk through. When he came driving into the parking lot, another EC who was also bidding the project, was riding in the truck with him. Would you care to take a guess on who won that contract and many more to follow. It turns out they were good fishing buddies. The EC had the boat and the PM had a pole. :jawdrop:

 

[growler]

Why does dishonesty pay???

I see most dishonest behavior as a high risk venture and if things work out the pay off can be considerable. However if things don't work out there can be a serious down side as with most high risk ventures.


Sure some people can get away with taking risk but then again some don't.

 

[MarkyMarkNC]

If it's the two companies I'm thinking of, that happened over twenty years ago. People from those companies served jail time. Doesn't one of the companies have completely different owners from when that happened?

 

[GUNNING]

Yes

Yes

How much is your soul worth?

That is why there are whistle blower statutes. That is why the IRS has a bounty program. That is why the FED's have a CI status that is equivalent to the "Golden Ticket."

Just make sure you are right first and figure your are going to be moving.:slaphead:

 

[zog]

Often the law requires they accept bids from contractors meeting certain conditions and in many cases their hands have been tied by laws that require using the lowest bidder.

Not to mention women/minority/vet owned companies, often you see a minory vet woman being the "owner" on paper so they get priority on government bids. I fail to see how that should be a factor in selecting the best bid.

 

[KD4315]

Not to mention women/minority/vet owned companies, often you see a minory vet woman being the "owner" on paper so they get priority on government bids. I fail to see how that should be a factor in selecting the best bid.

You should see how it is in San Francisco. Minority contractors get a 5% bid discount. There are also more minority owned business in San Francisco than white owned business. Doesn't that mean they're not the minority anymore?

 

[zog]

You should see how it is in San Francisco. Minority contractors get a 5% bid discount. There are also more minority owned business in San Francisco than white owned business. Doesn't that mean they're not the minority anymore?

It should but if white male owned business got a 5% discount there would be riots and lawsuits galore.

 

[ggunn]

Why does dishonesty pay???

I see most dishonest behavior as a high risk venture and if things work out the pay off can be considerable. However if things don't work out there can be a serious down side as with most high risk ventures.


Sure some people can get away with taking risk but then again some don't.

The problem is that a lot of the time the risk is borne by the taxpayers. Private profit, public risk. It's how Freddie Mac and Sallie Mae could lose billions and their officers could still get their multimillion dollar bonuses.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Dishonesty pays because it's dishonest, once you break one rule you might as well break the rest so keep it off the books, don't pay taxes on it, charge prevailing wage, but pay regular wages, charge for speced material, but substitute an inferior product.

It goes on and on.

 

[ggunn]

Dishonesty pays because it's dishonest, once you break one rule you might as well break the rest so keep it off the books, don't pay taxes on it, charge prevailing wage, but pay regular wages, charge for speced material, but substitute an inferior product.

It goes on and on.

Yes, it does, and I'll go beyond that and say that breaking one rule often necessitates breaking others in order to avoid getting caught. To unabashedly whip a dead horse once again it is the reason why regulation and oversight is necessary. Having rules is useless if there is no enforcement. The "honor system" stands not a ghost of a chance in the face of economic enticement.

 

[iwire]

If it makes you feel better there has been dishonesty as long as there have been possessions.

 

[kwired]

If it makes you feel better there has been dishonesty as long as there have been possessions.

If you are one that reads the bible it started in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, we are born sinners.

If you are not one that reads the bible you can still see that people are just that way. It takes some training to make us good people and it needs to start as a young child. And even then mistakes are made.

 

[iwire]

If you are one that reads the bible it started in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, we are born sinners.

If you are not one that reads the bible you can still see that people are just that way. It takes some training to make us good people and it needs to start as a young child. And even then mistakes are made.

I am not anywhere near that deep.:happyno:

I just look at humans as the same big dumb bags of meat that we have always been with very little change in behaviors even with all the progress we have made in other areas.

 

[kwired]

I am not anywhere near that deep.:happyno:

I just look at humans as the same big dumb bags of meat that we have always been with very little change in behaviors even with all the progress we have made in other areas.

I won't disagree with that.

 

[jmellc]

Thanks for all the replies/observations.

1 of the EC's, the offense occurred in the late 70's, maybe early 80's. I had worked there in 76 and 77. I don't remember if any company officers served time over it. That company was sold to a larger firm, then later the family bought it back again, is my understanding.

Other EC, the offense took place before I worked for them. I went there in 95. I was told 1 of their partners served time in a "country club" prison.

Both were owned by "good ole white boys", so no minority favoritism was involved.

Both companies have had a lot of state & federal jobs over the years. It just bothers me that with the number of EC's out there, that the state/fed would allow a crook to bid again. Most of us citizens are not going to use anyone a 2nd time that purposely ripped us off the 1st time.