Display lights in cabinets

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codeunderstanding

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I'm doing a kitchen remodel where they are getting new kithcen cabinets. The customer wants lights in the upper cabinets with the glass doors and shelves. The cabinets go all the way to the ceiling. I was thinking about cutting in some halo 3" mini cans in there with the mr 16 light bulb low voltage can. I think that would go in all right. Or use puck lights and put the transformer in the unfinished basement and run nm tails down to the transformer and stub tails out of ceiling and splice puck light tails to nm wire in ceiling. Are there any other options that you guys use that you could share that would work any better?
 
I use wac lighting.

a208567e-ba7e-4e29-8684-26e1705d53ae.jpg

http://www.waclighting.com/USA/products/?categoryid=67&productid=269
 
codeunderstanding said:
I looked at those before, never used them. Does it matter how far the transformer is from the last light. I was planning on putting 4 lights on one side of the cabinets, and 4 on the other side.
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Yes it could matter, Depending on the length, I would either (A) use larger wire for the longer runs, or (B) use two transformers.
 
codeunderstanding said:
Or use puck lights and put the transformer in the unfinished basement and run nm tails down to the transformer and stub tails out of ceiling and splice puck light tails to nm wire in ceiling. Are there any other options that you guys use that you could share that would work any better?
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I don't think you can do this. The nm cable would have to terminate in an approved box at the light. You cannot just splice the wires from a puck to nm in the ceiling. Maybe you have some pucks that can accommodate nm-- I would like to know what brand they are.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't think you can do this. The nm cable would have to terminate in an approved box at the light. You cannot just splice the wires from a puck to nm in the ceiling. Maybe you have some pucks that can accommodate nm-- I would like to know what brand they are.
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Even though the wiring is nm cable but supplied from a class 2 power supply would it still need to be in a junction box? What code article do you have?
 
codeunderstanding said:
Even though the wiring is nm cable but supplied from a class 2 power supply would it still need to be in a junction box? What code article do you have?
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Read art. 411.4 I believe the entire run would have to be done as permitted in chapter 3.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Read art. 411.4 I believe the entire run would have to be done as permitted in chapter 3.
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I did wire some puck lights like that back when I worked for a contractor. It passed inspection with the nm and tails of the pucks spliced above the cabinets. Reading some of these posts though that might be wrong. Oh well.
 
codeunderstanding said:
I did wire some puck lights like that back when I worked for a contractor. It passed inspection with the nm and tails of the pucks spliced above the cabinets. Reading some of these posts though that might be wrong. Oh well.
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I have done the same.
 
stretch12 said:
seagull makes a lv track with lv cable that the lampsocket stabs onto total size with socket is 5/8 x 1" real sleek but can be a pain
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They have them at my suppliers. Looks like a lot of work but they have a tidy LV transformer that can hide up under the cabinet so you don't have this lv issue with wires in the walls.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I don't think you can do this. The nm cable would have to terminate in an approved box at the light. You cannot just splice the wires from a puck to nm in the ceiling. Maybe you have some pucks that can accommodate nm-- I would like to know what brand they are.
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There is also this option...


There is a change that has been accepted for the 2005 NEC that will relax the requirements in 411.4 by permitting Class 2 wiring methods to be used and concealed within walls, floors, and ceilings where the power supply is a listed Class 2 power supply and the wiring is installed in accordance with 725.52. There may be a drawback to this new permissive rule that should be considered. Tables 11(A) and 11(B) in chapter 9 do not permit a Class 2 power supply to have nameplate wattage that exceeds 100 VA or amperage that exceeds 5 amps at 30 volts or less. Comparing this 5-ampere value to the 25-ampere and higher wattage permission granted in Article 411 for low-voltage lighting systems will severely restrict the use of Class 2 power units. Class 2 power supplies will, however, provide an alternative cable that can be installed inside walls, ceilings, floors, cabinets, and other spaces where chapter 3 wiring methods were not easily installed.


http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/04_f/ode.htm
 
stickboy1375 said:
There is also this option...


There is a change that has been accepted for the 2005 NEC that will relax the requirements in 411.4 by permitting Class 2 wiring methods to be used and concealed within walls, floors, and ceilings where the power supply is a listed Class 2 power supply and the wiring is installed in accordance with 725.52. There may be a drawback to this new permissive rule that should be considered. Tables 11(A) and 11(B) in chapter 9 do not permit a Class 2 power supply to have nameplate wattage that exceeds 100 VA or amperage that exceeds 5 amps at 30 volts or less. Comparing this 5-ampere value to the 25-ampere and higher wattage permission granted in Article 411 for low-voltage lighting systems will severely restrict the use of Class 2 power units. Class 2 power supplies will, however, provide an alternative cable that can be installed inside walls, ceilings, floors, cabinets, and other spaces where chapter 3 wiring methods were not easily installed.


http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/04_f/ode.htm
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This is true but I have yet to see any puck lights that have come as a listed system to be installed in walls. I have seen some other systems and I posted one a while ago.
 
I've used alot of those WAC lights shown previously. They are very good for "puck" style lights. Not your Home Depot level of quality.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
This is true but I have yet to see any puck lights that have come as a listed system to be installed in walls. I have seen some other systems and I posted one a while ago.
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Yeah, its convincing architects and homeowners that its illegal that is the problem...
 
As Dennis correctly pointed out, these low voltage lights must be installed as A LISTED SYSTEM. Following the directions of any of these listed systems will not result in an installation where the puck or disk light lead wires are wire nutted to NM cable or any other chapter 3 wiring method. If you need to install a cabinet light with a remote mounted transformer, check out the Seagull 9426-12. This is a UL listed recessed incandescent luminaire. Small, looks great, and the MR-11 lamp lights up glass shelving quite well.
 
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