Distance of light switch from bedroom doorway

[tompegbel]

This is a question on whether there is a code violation in this newly built townhouse in Methuen MA. When exiting the bedroom the light switches to lilluminate the kitchen/great room area are six feet from the doorway. This seems like a safety issue if someone was to exit the bedroom in the dark and attempt to access the switches. Is this a code violation?

 

[HEYDOG]

I don’t believe that it is a code violation. My first Question….is why are they located that far away? Was that the location shown on the plans? I wouldn’t be happy with that as the installer or the Tenant! But that doesn’t make it a Code violation. Unless there is something in the International Residential Building Code…if that is used in your area….and it specifies a distance!

 

[retirede]

That’s not unusual. I’ve seen kitchens with 3 entrances and one doorway had no switch anywhere near it.

 

[tom baker]

The requirement is for a lighting outlet controlled by a wall switch. The switch can anywhere and no luminaire is required

 

[tthh]

It is a poor layout for sure.

 

[ptonsparky]

PPP, and I would be embarrassed as an installer.

 

[infinity]

What code cycle? Current code cycle requires the switch to be near the entrance to the room. Near is not defined so it's anyone's guess as to what is acceptable.

 

[rc/retired]

What code cycle? Current code cycle requires the switch to be near the entrance to the room. Near is not defined so it's anyone's guess as to what is acceptable.

Yep. New in the 2020 code.

Ron

 

[don_resqcapt19]

210.70(A)(1) Habitable Rooms.
At least one lighting outlet controlled by a listed wall-mounted control device shall be installed in every habitable room, kitchen, and bathroom. The wall-mounted control device shall be located near an entrance to the room on a wall.

Now the question becomes "is 6' near the entrance?" Only YOUR AHJ knows the answer to that.

 

[Little Bill]

As for the distance a switch is from the entrance, I've had instances where studs were closely placed, plumbing in the way, pocket doors installed, etc. that caused me to have to place the switches in odd places. No rule against it, but not ideal for the user. Sometimes you have no choice unless you use a wireless switch with a remote switch.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

As for the distance a switch is from the entrance, I've had instances where studs were closely placed, plumbing in the way, pocket doors installed, etc. that caused me to have to place the switches in odd places. No rule against it, but not ideal for the user. Sometimes you have no choice unless you use a wireless switch with a remote switch.

Then you run into this issue in the 2023 code.

210.70 Lighting Outlets Required.
Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C). The switch or wall-mounted control device shall not rely exclusively on a battery unless a means is provided for automatically energizing the lighting outlets upon battery failure.

Not sure that there is any device on the market that complies with this.

 

[Little Bill]

Then you run into this issue in the 2023 code.

Not sure that there is any device on the market that complies with this.

Well if the lights are on when the battery dies, they would remain on. If the lights were off, you just have to go to the master switch and turn them on. I don't know any way of them just turning themselves on. That makes no sense. Hopefully they meant there would be another means of turning them on.
Or hopefully, an inspector would use common sense here.

 

[Kansas Mountain]

Hopefully manufacturers update to just make sure all of these wireless systems fail to 100% on so that this is a moot point, but. . . .

I think you could argue that the switch is the power pack.

If the code says switch OR wall-mounted control device, power packs wouldn't be reliant on batteries. Just make sure you don't install the power pack on a wall. I think it's a pretty petty argument, but the codes themselves are the OG of pettiness.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Well if the lights are on when the battery dies, they would remain on. If the lights were off, you just have to go to the master switch and turn them on. I don't know any way of them just turning themselves on. That makes no sense. Hopefully they meant there would be another means of turning them on.
Or hopefully, an inspector would use common sense here.

The intent of the code is that they turn on when the battery in the wall mounted device dies. Some of these don't have any master to go to, just a wireless switch to a relay at the luminarie.

 

[kwired]

Now the question becomes "is 6' near the entrance?" Only YOUR AHJ knows the answer to that.

Also seems to be open to interpretation should there be more than one entrance to the room as to whether you need switch near every entrance. I think this should go back to what it was before, NEC is not a design manual. If anything some other code should be what may require said switches.

 

[Little Bill]

The intent of the code is that they turn on when the battery in the wall mounted device dies. Some of these don't have any master to go to, just a wireless switch to a relay at the luminarie.

I use the Lutron that requires a master and a remote. If the battery dies in the remote with the lights on, they will remain on. I wonder if they would make an exception for that.

 

[n1ist]

Some BMS systems (Encelium for one) do monitor the battery voltage in remote switches or sensors and can use a battery failure to turn on the lights

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I use the Lutron that requires a master and a remote. If the battery dies in the remote with the lights on, they will remain on. I wonder if they would make an exception for that.

There is a TIA that should show up in Link soon, but the 2023 language has no exception for the system you are describing.
[/quote]210.70 Lighting Outlets Required. Lighting outlets shall be installed where specified in 210.70(A), (B), and (C). The
switch or listed wall-mounted control device shall not rely exclusively on a battery power unless a it incorporates a
positive means of notification of impending battery depletion. is provided for automatically energizing the lighting outlets
upon battery failure.[/quote]
Note that TIA do not become enforceable unless they are legally adopted by the authority that adopted the code itself and using the same process as adopting the code.

 

[tom baker]

What code cycle? Current code cycle requires the switch to be near the entrance to the room. Near is not defined so it's anyone's guess as to what is acceptable.

The switch could be outside the room, or behind the door..

 

[letgomywago]

Then you run into this issue in the 2023 code.

Not sure that there is any device on the market that complies with this.

What about the fancy PoE stuff? Any of them have this function?