In a residential service how far can the panelboard be from the meter can? I have a situation where a customer wants a service upgrade. The meter is in the original back of the house but due to two parallel room additions over time this area is now a patio. They want the meter moved (out of sight)to the back of one of the new additions (about 20 feet) which would mean a 25 foot run under a crawl space to the current panelboard location(in the basement). Is this OK? Also,is there any overcurrent protection between the meter and the panelboard? Wondering what is realistic here.
Distance of meter from panelboard
- Thread starter rjlight
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
Local codes may not allow 25 ft. In Washington State the limit is 15 ft on unfused service entrance conductors, and the raceway type is resticted.
Local codes may not allow 25 ft. In Washington State the limit is 15 ft on unfused service entrance conductors, and the raceway type is resticted.
electricman2
Senior Member
- Location
- North Carolina
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
As Tom stated, it depends on local amendments. Some jurisdictions require back to back.
As Tom stated, it depends on local amendments. Some jurisdictions require back to back.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
It would probably be best to install a main disconnect outside with the meter. That way, the conductors going to the load center have short-circuit and ground fault protection.
You will, of course, have to separate neutral and grounds at the inside panel, but at least you will know for sure that the job is compliant and safe.
As stated above, this is not required by the code, it is just an option.
It would probably be best to install a main disconnect outside with the meter. That way, the conductors going to the load center have short-circuit and ground fault protection.
You will, of course, have to separate neutral and grounds at the inside panel, but at least you will know for sure that the job is compliant and safe.
As stated above, this is not required by the code, it is just an option.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
You have a few options
1)Talk to the AHJ and see if they will allow the 20' of service conductors through the crawl space. I doubt they will. and it is IMO a poor idea to do so.
2)Encase the service conductors in 2" of cement from the point they enter the structure all the way to the panel. 230.6(1)
3)Go from the meter underground 18" min. through the crawl space into the the rear of the panel in the basement. 230.6(4)
4)Put in a service disconnect at the meter as Bryan suggested.
Just my opinion but I would go with option 4, use a meter main breaker combo unit and be sure to do what Bryan said about separating grounds and Neutrals at the indoor panel.
You have a few options
1)Talk to the AHJ and see if they will allow the 20' of service conductors through the crawl space. I doubt they will. and it is IMO a poor idea to do so.
2)Encase the service conductors in 2" of cement from the point they enter the structure all the way to the panel. 230.6(1)
3)Go from the meter underground 18" min. through the crawl space into the the rear of the panel in the basement. 230.6(4)
4)Put in a service disconnect at the meter as Bryan suggested.
Just my opinion but I would go with option 4, use a meter main breaker combo unit and be sure to do what Bryan said about separating grounds and Neutrals at the indoor panel.
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
Read 230.70 (A) 1 "The service disconnecting means shall be located at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or nearest the point of entry of the service conductors" The NEC is pretty clear. I don't think 25" would be "Nearest the point of entry". Go with Bob's option #4. This is really the easiest and safest way. Any AHJ that would allow a 25' run of un fused service conductors is obviously unqualified in that position, and any electrician who would make such an installation is just as unqualified. Like they say Just My opinion.
Read 230.70 (A) 1 "The service disconnecting means shall be located at a readily accessible location either outside of a building or structure or nearest the point of entry of the service conductors" The NEC is pretty clear. I don't think 25" would be "Nearest the point of entry". Go with Bob's option #4. This is really the easiest and safest way. Any AHJ that would allow a 25' run of un fused service conductors is obviously unqualified in that position, and any electrician who would make such an installation is just as unqualified. Like they say Just My opinion.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
5 feet may be a local law, but the NEC has no measurement attached to the requirement.
Bob's 4 part response is easy to follow regardless of where one may work.
Pierre
5 feet may be a local law, but the NEC has no measurement attached to the requirement.
Bob's 4 part response is easy to follow regardless of where one may work.
Pierre
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
It is easy to get wrapped up in the "rules" and forget about the reasons for those rules. Lets see, if the AHJ will let me go 25 feet, maybe I can go 35 feet? Do I really have to have a disconnecting means within 10 feet, can I go 15 feet like they do in ******* (you pick the location)?
The reason for the rule is that there is no protection on the service entrance conductors. If there is a fault inside the building, it is likely to start a fire even if it is in a raceway.
I really like the signature of one of the guys that says, "Be fair, Be safe, just don't be fairly safe." I hope I quoted it correctly.
It is easy to get wrapped up in the "rules" and forget about the reasons for those rules. Lets see, if the AHJ will let me go 25 feet, maybe I can go 35 feet? Do I really have to have a disconnecting means within 10 feet, can I go 15 feet like they do in ******* (you pick the location)?
The reason for the rule is that there is no protection on the service entrance conductors. If there is a fault inside the building, it is likely to start a fire even if it is in a raceway.
I really like the signature of one of the guys that says, "Be fair, Be safe, just don't be fairly safe." I hope I quoted it correctly.
springtownspark
Member
Re: Distance of meter from panelboard
Stopped by today to BS with a roofing contractor. Walking through the house he has been rehabbing I notice the cover was off the breaker panel. I was asked what I thought about his service. Bad habit of looking. AT the Mall, in the gym at school, I'm always looking at the electrical work. You guys know how that is. Anyway....SEC in PVC down to an LB through the mud sill, laying on the ground in the crawl space up the wall into the breaker panel. I said the main's not bolted in. You can pull it off the bus while it's energized. "Why would anybody want to do that? The cover will keep it in !" But the cover's not on now, it's a code violation. Normally the AHJ will allow 10' without a disconnect under the meter. This run is 35-40' I pointed out the pole with the transformer on it and the five service drops. Told him the transformer is probably fused about 800amps to handle those five drops. The SEC would melt and start a fire before it blew the fuse on the transformer. "Well he must have known what he's doing, that's what he does for a living." OK Then, typical day, small town America. I also like that signature. Just don't be fairly safe !
Hell with it! I think I'll go fishing ! Dan
[ May 11, 2004, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: springtownspark ]
Stopped by today to BS with a roofing contractor. Walking through the house he has been rehabbing I notice the cover was off the breaker panel. I was asked what I thought about his service. Bad habit of looking. AT the Mall, in the gym at school, I'm always looking at the electrical work. You guys know how that is. Anyway....SEC in PVC down to an LB through the mud sill, laying on the ground in the crawl space up the wall into the breaker panel. I said the main's not bolted in. You can pull it off the bus while it's energized. "Why would anybody want to do that? The cover will keep it in !" But the cover's not on now, it's a code violation. Normally the AHJ will allow 10' without a disconnect under the meter. This run is 35-40' I pointed out the pole with the transformer on it and the five service drops. Told him the transformer is probably fused about 800amps to handle those five drops. The SEC would melt and start a fire before it blew the fuse on the transformer. "Well he must have known what he's doing, that's what he does for a living." OK Then, typical day, small town America. I also like that signature. Just don't be fairly safe !
Hell with it! I think I'll go fishing ! Dan
[ May 11, 2004, 09:48 PM: Message edited by: springtownspark ]
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