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Re: DIY: Official Policy.
Atta boy, Wayne!
Atta boy, Wayne!
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mthead
Senior Member
- Location
- Long Beach,NY
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
re:sears display-an alert to the sales mgr.about lawsuit liability for providing inaccurate and dangerous info. to their customers might achieve the desired response[i.e.eliminating the display]
re:sears display-an alert to the sales mgr.about lawsuit liability for providing inaccurate and dangerous info. to their customers might achieve the desired response[i.e.eliminating the display]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
I am more then a little confused by this liability issue, no I have not forgotten lawyers need to make a living too.
But bad home repair advice is everywhere, stores, TV shows, books etc.
It seems if liability is such an issue all these sources would be sued out of existence, they all seem to cover their a** by a small disclaimer that says consult your local codes, or something like that.
I know all areas are different but here a homeowner is still obligated by law to pull a permit and get inspections.
It seems doubtful to me if they broke the law by not getting permits and inspections that they would have much luck recovering any damages from any of these sources of bad advice.
JMO
Bob
I am more then a little confused by this liability issue, no I have not forgotten lawyers need to make a living too.
But bad home repair advice is everywhere, stores, TV shows, books etc.
It seems if liability is such an issue all these sources would be sued out of existence, they all seem to cover their a** by a small disclaimer that says consult your local codes, or something like that.
I know all areas are different but here a homeowner is still obligated by law to pull a permit and get inspections.
It seems doubtful to me if they broke the law by not getting permits and inspections that they would have much luck recovering any damages from any of these sources of bad advice.
JMO
Bob
brian john
Senior Member
- Location
- Leesburg, VA
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
The advantage of aawt statement, or is this statement from this site moderators? Is instead of giving homeowners or DIY'ers a curt get lost answer they can be shown the door politely?
The advantage of aawt statement, or is this statement from this site moderators? Is instead of giving homeowners or DIY'ers a curt get lost answer they can be shown the door politely?
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
Yes, shown the right door.
When I taught school in Mass in the 80's they told us to remember the only stupid question was the one you didn't ask. We were encouraged to stimulate the student's minds by promoting an environment where they would feel comfortable asking so-called "stupid questions". So when I entered the construction industry in '88, I carried the "ask-that-stupid-question" approach into my new work environment. Thank God I had a boss (A GC as well as a licensed EC) who did not belittle such questions; though at times he would direct me to do some "homework" that helped me answer my own question.
So as far as the DIYers: if they aren't directed to some legitimate help (such as sites/sources specifically designed and limited for their situation) they will go on ahead and do that addition project and set themselves, or someone later, up to be "burned". If they can be helped to see the significance and potential danger of their ideas, they MAY see they need to seek a professional (maybe not, too).
Then as far as those in the trade who haven't achieved Genius status yet: I have seen far too many "schooled wonders" that cannot function in the real world without someone holding their hand all day long. They need help, too. Then there are those of us who have worked our way a little distance up the knowledge/skill ladder in electrical contracting and don't have a whole string of letters behind our names, and find it real refreshing to be able to ask "stupid questions" and read other's "stupid questions" and then see the flow of intelligent responses from those who have been there before, and the discussion that ensues.
A Thank You to each one of you that contributes, questions or answers!
[ September 29, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: cwsnsons ]
Yes, shown the right door.
When I taught school in Mass in the 80's they told us to remember the only stupid question was the one you didn't ask. We were encouraged to stimulate the student's minds by promoting an environment where they would feel comfortable asking so-called "stupid questions". So when I entered the construction industry in '88, I carried the "ask-that-stupid-question" approach into my new work environment. Thank God I had a boss (A GC as well as a licensed EC) who did not belittle such questions; though at times he would direct me to do some "homework" that helped me answer my own question.
So as far as the DIYers: if they aren't directed to some legitimate help (such as sites/sources specifically designed and limited for their situation) they will go on ahead and do that addition project and set themselves, or someone later, up to be "burned". If they can be helped to see the significance and potential danger of their ideas, they MAY see they need to seek a professional (maybe not, too).
Then as far as those in the trade who haven't achieved Genius status yet: I have seen far too many "schooled wonders" that cannot function in the real world without someone holding their hand all day long. They need help, too. Then there are those of us who have worked our way a little distance up the knowledge/skill ladder in electrical contracting and don't have a whole string of letters behind our names, and find it real refreshing to be able to ask "stupid questions" and read other's "stupid questions" and then see the flow of intelligent responses from those who have been there before, and the discussion that ensues.
A Thank You to each one of you that contributes, questions or answers!
[ September 29, 2003, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: cwsnsons ]
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
i was told long ago that there is no such thing as a stupid question,however one should know by familarity with trade standard practice and dealing with code regulations what a legitimate question sounds like.but then again we're probably dealing with a wide range of levels of experience which may indicate why some questions appear to be inappropiate to some people.
i was told long ago that there is no such thing as a stupid question,however one should know by familarity with trade standard practice and dealing with code regulations what a legitimate question sounds like.but then again we're probably dealing with a wide range of levels of experience which may indicate why some questions appear to be inappropiate to some people.
hurk27
Senior Member
- Location
- Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
The thing I'm wondering is If we can be liable for giving a DYS the right info to do a job he probley will do anyways, Why are we not be liable for refusing to help them and they do it wrong? Wouldn't this be like seeing a car crash and driving away without helping and there has been people sued over this.
The thing I'm wondering is If we can be liable for giving a DYS the right info to do a job he probley will do anyways, Why are we not be liable for refusing to help them and they do it wrong? Wouldn't this be like seeing a car crash and driving away without helping and there has been people sued over this.
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
Wayne: Your concern is a valid one, but I think the answer is the legal term "assumption of risk"
ASSUMPTION OF RISK - A defense raised in personal injury lawsuits. Asserts that the plaintiff knew that a particular activity was dangerous and thus bears all responsibility for any injury that resulted.
I am not a lawyer, I do not claim to be a lawyer. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!
Wayne: Your concern is a valid one, but I think the answer is the legal term "assumption of risk"
ASSUMPTION OF RISK - A defense raised in personal injury lawsuits. Asserts that the plaintiff knew that a particular activity was dangerous and thus bears all responsibility for any injury that resulted.
I am not a lawyer, I do not claim to be a lawyer. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
There is a risk when answering a question. There are those questions that are asked either by a qualified of unqualified person in such a way in order to obtain an answer which that person would like to hear. If you focus on given an answer to a specific question there may be many other factors that that are overlooked that would influence the answer given which may not be correct at all. I've gotten burned enough times that if I suspect that if I'm not getting the entire story I'm reluctant or refuse to give an answer.
Then there is the unqualified person that may not be familiar with safe electrical practices and procedures who may not have the foggiest idea about what he is asking. He may not recognize a problem or understand that there is more to the question. It would be irresponsible to attempt to answer this type of question.
I believe answers can be given but they must be prefaced with that the answer is based specifically upon the question asked and does not take into consideration other factors that may influence the answer.
Answers provided to those who are not licensed or trained to have qualifications must be always advised of the dangers and should consult an electrician of other qualified person if they are not familiar with safe electrical practices and procedures.
We certainly would not like to hand a person a loaded gun.
There is a risk when answering a question. There are those questions that are asked either by a qualified of unqualified person in such a way in order to obtain an answer which that person would like to hear. If you focus on given an answer to a specific question there may be many other factors that that are overlooked that would influence the answer given which may not be correct at all. I've gotten burned enough times that if I suspect that if I'm not getting the entire story I'm reluctant or refuse to give an answer.
Then there is the unqualified person that may not be familiar with safe electrical practices and procedures who may not have the foggiest idea about what he is asking. He may not recognize a problem or understand that there is more to the question. It would be irresponsible to attempt to answer this type of question.
I believe answers can be given but they must be prefaced with that the answer is based specifically upon the question asked and does not take into consideration other factors that may influence the answer.
Answers provided to those who are not licensed or trained to have qualifications must be always advised of the dangers and should consult an electrician of other qualified person if they are not familiar with safe electrical practices and procedures.
We certainly would not like to hand a person a loaded gun.
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
Ryan,
Of course a Judge may say a lawyer doesn't mean much.
Some of us have had to sit in court as expert witnesses, defendants, plaintiffs, or just plain seat fillers, and all we can do here is give our opinion
Roger
[ September 29, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
Ryan,
thank you, and none of us are. I appreciate your excellent statement.
Of course a Judge may say a lawyer doesn't mean much.
Some of us have had to sit in court as expert witnesses, defendants, plaintiffs, or just plain seat fillers, and all we can do here is give our opinion
Roger
[ September 29, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: roger ]
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: DIY: Official Policy.
The key phrase (on the forum?s home page) is,
The key phrase (on the forum?s home page) is,
If a DIY says they heard that their home?s main panel had to have 42 inches of clearance, and wanted to know where that rule was stated, you can say 110.26, and be safe from lawsuits. You can provide factual information about the locations of code requirements, without it being construed as your having given advice. But you should not provide a DIY with any ?How-To? information, because that opens the door to ?Why didn?t you also tell me about the dangers of ?.?
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