DIY pictures of the day to learn from

[ivsenroute]

When I saw this setup on this 2 year old garage that was built without a permit, has no footing in an area that has a 42" frost depth with an undermined slab, I knew the sub panel inside would not be any better. Yeah, that is NM outside.

Would not expect anything less from inside the sub panel.

 

[stickboy1375]

NM used as the feeder also?

 

[steelersman]

neutrals and grounds on same lug. no seperate ground. tisk tisk tisk.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

neutrals and grounds on same lug. no seperate ground. tisk tisk tisk.

it is possible he installed this panel as per 250.32(B)(2) in the '05 and previous NEC cycles.

 

[CopperTone]

so that panel is not actually grounded is it?

if you touched your testers one to the hot breaker and the other to the metal panel you wouldn't get a voltage reading. so if a hot wire came in contact with the panel it would energize the panel.

I had one like this 2 days ago. there was no bonding strap - good - but the grounds and neutrals were all on the same lifted bar. moved the grounds to a bar attached to the panel and wow same test and there is my voltage.

guess who installed it originally? the HO.

 

[chris kennedy]

Is 6/3 NM good for 100A in your area?

 

[masterinbama]

Sure 6/3 is good for 100 amps. If I swap out the breaker after the final. It amazes me how little current those wires can carry when that pesky inspectors around.

 

[peter d]

Is 6/3 NM good for 100A in your area?

Since it's a detached garage it probably has OCPD at the main panel. They probably bought a 100 amp main breaker panel. There's no NEC issue with that. The NM ran in the pipe, now that's a problem.

 

[ivsenroute]

50A breaker in the main feeds the 6/3 NM through PVC conduit to the sub so the 100A main is not a safety issue.

No Bond, no ground rods, just the NM from main to sub as you see it.

 

[stickboy1375]

50A breaker in the main feeds the 6/3 NM through PVC conduit to the sub so the 100A main is not a safety issue.

No Bond, no ground rods, just the NM from main to sub as you see it.

who did the work? And just out of curiosity, why were you there to begin with?

 

[izak]

did you check with a meter to see if the 'neutral' bus was bonded to case? the SQ D homeline main breaker panels ive run across have the 'neutral' bonded to case from factory and there isnt much way to seperate it from case and create a 4 wire system without violating SQ D specs
usually a main breaker resi panel doesnt include a ground bus because they are meant to be used as a 3 wire (service equipment)

 

[LarryFine]

it is possible he installed this panel as per 250.32(B)(2) in the '05 and previous NEC cycles.

Not without the bonding screw, which is clearly not in its intended hole.

 

[LarryFine]

so that panel is not actually grounded is it?

Not within the picture, at least.

if you touched your testers one to the hot breaker and the other to the metal panel you wouldn't get a voltage reading.

With a standard voltmeter, probably. With a wiggy, no.

 

[LarryFine]

did you check with a meter to see if the 'neutral' bus was bonded to case?

Again, clearly the piocture shows the entire neutral bus assembly, and there's no enclosure bond.

the SQ D homeline main breaker panels ive run across have the 'neutral' bonded to case from factory and there isnt much way to seperate it from case and create a 4 wire system without violating SQ D specs

I've never seen that. The EGC bus(es) may be inseparable, but the neutral bus(es), always are.


In fact, in the OP pic, the bottom-left bare wire appears to be the #10 from the NM feeder, which means it's in parellel with the feeder neutral, a no-no regardless of the code cycle (not) being followed at the time.

The simple fix, though non-compliant with the factory, is to cut the neutral jumper, insert the bonding screw, make the side with the screw into the EGC bus and the side without the screw into the neutral bus.

 

[wireguru]

The simple fix, though non-compliant with the factory, is to cut the neutral jumper, insert the bonding screw, make the side with the screw into the EGC bus and the side without the screw into the neutral bus.

or you could grab the $4 ground bar kit for that can :smile:

and on that note, man some of the homeline stuff is cheap at homedepot. I paid $39 the other day for a 12/24 indoor, ML convertible with 5 free 20a breakers

 

[steelersman]

or you could grab the $4 ground bar kit for that can :smile:

and on that note, man some of the homeline stuff is cheap at homedepot. I paid $39 the other day for a 12/24 indoor, ML convertible with 5 free 20a breakers

nothing's free. The panel simply came with 5-20 amp breakers that you paid for.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I've never seen that. The EGC bus(es) may be inseparable, but the neutral bus(es), always are.

Larry, there are panels that are listed as "suitable only for service equipment". These panels have the neutral/grounding bus permanently connected to the enclosure. You cannot use these panels in applications where the neutral is not permitted to be bonded to the enclosure. Only panels listed as "suitable for use as service equipment" have the removable bond.

 

[wbalsam1]

.............I paid $39 the other day for a 12/24 indoor, ML convertible with 5 free 20a breakers

Makes one wonder if it's all "knock-offs" from Asia.

 

[wireguru]

Makes one wonder if it's all "knock-offs" from Asia.

at home depot though? i remember a few years ago ebay was FLOODED with cheap SQD stuff, that was all knockoffs

 

[LarryFine]

Larry, there are panels that are listed as "suitable only for service equipment". These panels have the neutral/grounding bus permanently connected to the enclosure.

I wonder if one could buy an insulated bus to add to such a panel.