Do I have to use the carbon copy permit applications, or can I use a PDF?

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You can make your own B&W copies but you'll need a total of 4 like the std. ones and your pressure seal and signature has to appear on ALL of them. If any township tells you otherwise have them contact the State DCA.

Depending on thr extent of the job you may also need a Manila jacket and a construction form that have to be filled out as well.
 
kwired said:
They never heard of the internet there?

I file all my permits online.
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We're lucky we have the PDF forms. I think that's mostly due to John Drucker. He's the assistant CO in Red Bank. Also the Fire and Electrical Sub Code Official. He created the fillable forms on his own, although I think the state keeps them up now.
 
gadfly56 said:
We're lucky we have the PDF forms. I think that's mostly due to John Drucker. He's the assistant CO in Red Bank. Also the Fire and Electrical Sub Code Official. He created the fillable forms on his own, although I think the state keeps them up now.
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I think the State should compel municipalities to become more computer literate. On the other hand, if the majority of EC's (especially the older ones) don't become computer literate this becomes an exercise in futility. Many will end up having their grand kids file the permits for them.
 
goldstar said:
I think the State should compel municipalities to become more computer literate. On the other hand, if the majority of EC's (especially the older ones) don't become computer literate this becomes an exercise in futility. Many will end up having their grand kids file the permits for them.
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We still can mail in (or probably walk in, but the State office is about 150 miles away for me) applications and payments. Post office closed some of the local sorting facilities in recent years, so that slows the already slow mail down, what used to get there next day takes two days out and two days back, if both parites get it dropped off before they pick up to sort. Online only takes a few minutes and you have a permit and payment processed. If I want I could pull up to the job, file the permit before getting out of the truck, and should inspector come by and question things - I have a permit:cool:

Heck, if I didn't file permit for whatever reason ahead of time and I see inspector coming down the street, I could quickly apply and if inspector questions anything - I have a permit.:)
 
kwired said:
We still can mail in (or probably walk in, but the State office is about 150 miles away for me) applications and payments. Post office closed some of the local sorting facilities in recent years, so that slows the already slow mail down, what used to get there next day takes two days out and two days back, if both parites get it dropped off before they pick up to sort. Online only takes a few minutes and you have a permit and payment processed. If I want I could pull up to the job, file the permit before getting out of the truck, and should inspector come by and question things - I have a permit:cool:

Heck, if I didn't file permit for whatever reason ahead of time and I see inspector coming down the street, I could quickly apply and if inspector questions anything - I have a permit.:)
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I know you're in the middle of the continental US in corn fields but by comparison to those of us that are in high density areas you're situation is way out in left field ( no pun intended). I'm all for on-line filing but the dinosaurs in my area probably still,have IBM Selectric typewriters :lol:
 
goldstar said:
I know you're in the middle of the continental US in corn fields but by comparison to those of us that are in high density areas you're situation is way out in left field ( no pun intended). I'm all for on-line filing but the dinosaurs in my area probably still,have IBM Selectric typewriters :lol:
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You sure it just isn't the people running the building codes and inspection departments are afraid they will lose control if the computer does some of their work? God forbid they do something that may make life easier for the owners and contractors of those projects.

Reality is if done right, they may actually have more control then they maybe do now.

I don't know all of what my inspectors can do with their computer, but they can search for permit information at least on open permits for certain. Every once in a while when they are on a site of mine I may ask if there are any open permits of mine that need finalized and they can easily look at what is open, see any notes that have been added, etc. They can search for information via permit number, contractor name, owner name, maybe other information.
 
kwired said:
You sure it just isn't the people running the building codes and inspection departments are afraid they will lose control if the computer does some of their work? God forbid they do something that may make life easier for the owners and contractors of those projects.

Reality is if done right, they may actually have more control then they maybe do now.

I don't know all of what my inspectors can do with their computer, but they can search for permit information at least on open permits for certain. Every once in a while when they are on a site of mine I may ask if there are any open permits of mine that need finalized and they can easily look at what is open, see any notes that have been added, etc. They can search for information via permit number, contractor name, owner name, maybe other information.
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I'm with you 100%. I think even if our State required it, each municipality would have to come up with their own version of a PDF that contractors could use. In addition, every EC in our State is issued a pressure seal to be used when filing a permit. How would you seal a permit on-line?
 
kwired said:
You sure it just isn't the people running the building codes and inspection departments are afraid they will lose control if the computer does some of their work? God forbid they do something that may make life easier for the owners and contractors of those projects.

Reality is if done right, they may actually have more control then they maybe do now.

I don't know all of what my inspectors can do with their computer, but they can search for permit information at least on open permits for certain. Every once in a while when they are on a site of mine I may ask if there are any open permits of mine that need finalized and they can easily look at what is open, see any notes that have been added, etc. They can search for information via permit number, contractor name, owner name, maybe other information.
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At my last job, in Paterson, I was within 40 minutes from nearly every customer we had to file a permit for. Very few people will drive an hour and a half for a small (< 4 hours) job; you can't afford the windshield time. Permit offices run on the fees they take in. If they want to set up an on line service, they have to adjust fees accordingly. None of the offices I am familiar with seemed to be over-stocked with personnel. Frequently sub-code officials are part time, often at several municipalities. No one is rolling in money. No doubt in Nebraska and Texas there are individual counties larger than the entire state of NJ, and on-line permits are a "force multiplier" for the building department. In NJ, the only municipality I know of that has on-line tracking of the permit application is Freehold Township, and half the time it was down for "maintenance". Newark is apparently beta-testing an on-line process.
 
goldstar said:
I'm with you 100%. I think even if our State required it, each municipality would have to come up with their own version of a PDF that contractors could use. In addition, every EC in our State is issued a pressure seal to be used when filing a permit. How would you seal a permit on-line?
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First, if you go to the NJ DCA site you can already download the permit forms. Each municipality has to accept those forms. They're not allowed to "roll their own".

For the pressure seal, I've heard talk that the idea would be to mail in a form with the pressure seal so they can have it on file for each job, but reviews and comments would be handled electronically.
 
goldstar said:
I'm with you 100%. I think even if our State required it, each municipality would have to come up with their own version of a PDF that contractors could use. In addition, every EC in our State is issued a pressure seal to be used when filing a permit. How would you seal a permit on-line?
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Your permit process is likely more complex then what is here. For electrical permits we just fill out application, the contractor license number is a big factor in who can and cant file a permit. When they process a paper application, they likely check out other information and if it doesn't match what is on file for that license number it will likely end up either being rejected or at least giving a call to the number on file for that contractor to see what is going on. On line applications you need to be registered and given user name and password. Carelessness with handling the user name/password could result in others applying for permits under your license, so is wise to keep those secured.

We don't go through any plans submittal process - that is one thing you may have that will make it more complicated.

At same time I wouldn't think you would require plans submittal for each and every permit. A permit to add one or two circuits in an existing structure certainly doesn't seem it would be necessary, and seems would be a good reason to avoid filing in the first place if you are pretty sure you would get away with not filing.
 
gadfly56 said:
None of the offices I am familiar with seemed to be over-stocked with personnel. Frequently sub-code officials are part time, often at several municipalities. No one is rolling in money.
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I think that is an important key to the problem. With budget cut-backs a lot of municipalities use part time EI's. Several years ago I met an EI that inspected for 9 different towns in 1 week.
 
One other thing that is likely different for here is the electrical permits (state permits) is completely separate from any building, plumbing, mechanical, etc. codes/permits. I don't really know how any of the municipal operations work, I think most are mashing the electrical, plumbing, mechanical, etc all into one codes and inspections department though and probably does create more problems for a contractor that only works a single trade.
 
goldstar said:
I think that is an important key to the problem. With budget cut-backs a lot of municipalities use part time EI's. Several years ago I met an EI that inspected for 9 different towns in 1 week.
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There is a fire sub code official who is listed for 5 different municipalities.

Our own Rick Napier is the fire and electrical sub code for 2 municipalities.
 
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