Do i need a new GEC to satisfy NEC

[msd]

8 Unit Apartment Building

Existing FPE equipment currently being considered for replacement due to known issues and proximity to the beach (salt air). No other know service related issues (decent condition)other than known FPE problens (though none apparent).

Existing Overhead service, 9 meters total - 8 units & a house. I will be performing no work on the line side of the meters. Only 2 CB's in existing pnls - 20/20 & 20. All pnls located in common dog house at rear of bldg.

No Ground Rod visable . Existing GEC to local H20 (hose bib), but connection is 75+ feet from H20 entrance. The GEC and Neut/Gnd Bond connections are located within a gutter above the meter sockets. This gutter also contains the line side taps to the 9 meter sockets. NO WORK HERE FOR ME - on the line side (???)

NO EGC.
Wiring method is EMT from meter to pnls.
The load side of the Discos' are RFMC (steel)


<<<<<PROPOSED SCOPE OF WORK>>>>>

Replace the existing FPE pnls with 70 Amp Square D (Homeline) equipment of the same physical size. The new equipment is sutable for Service Equipment if not more than 2 discos present. 20/20 & 20 = 2

Existing Mechanical Bond for EGC (no green wire). When the FPE equipment is upgraded to SQ-D, I will use grounding locknuts on the 1" EMT feeder conduits. 1/2 RFMC is GEC to the units.

<<<<<<<<QUESTIONS>>>>>>>>>>
Can I replace the pnls without opening up a can of worms on the GEC side. Would I be required to satisfy current NEC standards regarding the complete Grounding Electrode System if I go forward with the work.

<<<<Reason for Asking>>>>>>
If these pnls were inside the units I would consider them "subs" fed by service equipment because of the required OCD's. Do I have to consider them service equipment in this case. And if so, do I need to upgrade the H20 GEC and add a suplimental GEC (rod)

The funds do not permit a complete service upgrade and running a GEC to the proper location requires $$$$$ or surface mounting. Neither of which is acceptable to the owner of the building.

 

[hurk27]

Re: Do i need a new GEC to satisfy NEC

Maybe it would be more acceptable if you got some advice from the local AHJ. I would say you would need at least address the GEC and the GE as with out this lightning will play havoc with this system even if there was no direct strike. having the water pipe bond at the "hose bib" creates a potential for lightning to have to enter the building to get to earth. If the primaries were to come into contact with the secondaries the current water bond would hold but only if no one repairs the plumbing with a plastic section.

And the bottom line is if someone is injured by not having the proper GE/GEC then it's your but on the line.

Just something to think about.

[ August 19, 2004, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[pierre]

Re: Do i need a new GEC to satisfy NEC

Regardless of lightning, or funds or the owner not liking whatever, the NEC is the NEC and should be installed equally wherever it is enforced. When installing a new service, the NEC requires the cold water connection within 5 feet of entrance to the building, run properly depending on many circumstances. If the owner does not want certain things done, don't work for them.

Wait, they are good customers.... okay, would you not want to install the job as well as it could be done if they are such great customers.

Good paying customers are sometimes hard to find, but that does not mean lowering your integrity, and the integrity of our great industry.

 

[msd]

Re: Do i need a new GEC to satisfy NEC

The only substandard type equipment is located on the load side of the meter.

The existing riser, meter sockets and gutters that contain the taps (to the meters)are all in good condition. They are in no need of upgrade or replacement. Not made by FPE.

I am proposing that the "service" and GEC portion of the service are existing. And therefore are not involved in the scope of work that I am pulling a permit to do. Furthermore, that the "service" in this case, is the EQUIPMENT BEFORE the meter sockets.

Tuesday is permit/inspection day - we'll see.


<<<<<So now I have another Question>>>>>>

Upon closer inspection PERHAPS I will find an existing electrode of some type that is code compliant (ie.. uffer, buried pipe, copper in footing, or other)If I were to add a suplimental electrode (ie. ground rod / or other)that was code compliant, or I would then only have to "Bond" the H20 piping to the grounding electrode system. This "Bond" can be located anyplace.

True or False ????