Do I need an EGC?

[Sparky068]

Feeding a 3phase 120/208 panel in separate building with an overhead branch circuit. It is fed with a quadplex. 3 insulated phase conductors and a bare neutral. This is not a service so the neutral will not be bonded to the panel. Do I need to run an equipment ground with the other wires?

 

[electrofelon]

Feeding a 3phase 120/208 panel in separate building with an overhead branch circuit. It is fed with a quadplex. 3 insulated phase conductors and a bare neutral. This is not a service so the neutral will not be bonded to the panel. Do I need to run an equipment ground with the other wires?

Yes. You used to be able to rebond N-G (with conditions) for remote structures but that was changed in 2008. I have never seen quintplex so you would have to lash on your extra conductor.

 

[Sparky068]

Yes. You used to be able to rebond N-G (with conditions) for remote structures but that was changed in 2008. I have never seen quintplex so you would have to lash on your extra conductor.

Do you have a code reference for this?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Sparky is it a branch circuit or a feeder?

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The section is 250.32(B).

If you are adding a panel at the separate structure then you need 4 wires. 3 phase conductors, neutral and an equipment grounding conductor.

 

[anthonysolino]

The section is 250.32(B).

If you are adding a panel at the separate structure then you need 4 wires. 3 phase conductors, neutral and an equipment grounding conductor.

I believe he would then need to drive a grounding electrode and bond that to the EGC coming from his branch circuit conductor?

 

[electrofelon]

Do you have a code reference for this?

Not sure which part, but As Dennis said, then also 250.24(a)(5).

See articles 396 and 225 for messenger supported wiring

 

[Sparky068]

Sparky is it a branch circuit or a feeder?

I have an emergency generator and a transformer feeding a transfer switch, main breaker enclosure feeding a panel board. The load I’m referring to is fed out of this 600amp panel.

 

[ramsy]

..never seen quintplex so you would have to lash on your extra conductor.

POCO services have an overhead messenger wire that gets bonded to buildings, then gets split from the Main Bonding Jumper into Neutral / GEC / EGC.
Why can't the messenger wire of similar overhead feeders, or branches be used as an EGC?

 

[texie]

POCO services have an overhead messenger wire that gets bonded to buildings, then gets split from the Main Bonding Jumper into Neutral / GEC / EGC.
Why can't the messenger wire of similar overhead feeders, or branches be used as an EGC?

Because it violates 250.24(A)(5) and 250.32.

 

[LarryFine]

The section is 250.32(B).

If you are adding a panel at the separate structure then you need 4 wires. 3 phase conductors, neutral and an equipment grounding conductor.

Why do I keep coming up with five?

 

[LarryFine]

I believe we don't have a "quint-plex" because that type of cable isn't really for feeders, even though we use it as such on 1ph.

 

[texie]

Why do I keep coming up with five?

Because you count better.

 

[texie]

I believe we don't have a "quint-plex" because that type of cable isn't really for feeders, even though we use it as such on 1ph.

Nope there is no "quint" available. I've checked this some time back. I have seen quadplex allowed with the messenger used as the EGC and lash an insulated neutral to it allowed.

 

[LarryFine]

Right. The OP is missing an insulated neutral in his idea.

 

[Another C10]

Feeding a 3phase 120/208 panel in separate building with an overhead branch circuit. It is fed with a quadplex. 3 insulated phase conductors and a bare neutral. This is not a service so the neutral will not be bonded to the panel. Do I need to run an equipment ground with the other wires?

I'd have to say being that its not a main feed and as noted branch then yes, I'd isolate a ( Insulated ) neutral while bonding a provided equipment ground to the metal enclosure. You wouldn't want a current carrying neutral for the mentioned 120 v to have a chance of leaking due to finding a better grounded path. just a thought .. Or just land the 3 phase into a disconnect, that way some other electrician wont come by years later and add a needed 120 v circuit for the new soda machine.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Why do I keep coming up with five?

Because I skip the class in kindergarten where we learned how to count. Actually I probably was thinking single phase at the time.

 

[paulengr]

The messenger can be the EGC. Then you just need quad PLLC with 4 insulated conductors, 3 phase and a neutral.

 

[Sparky068]

POCO services have an overhead messenger wire that gets bonded to buildings, then gets split from the Main Bonding Jumper into Neutral / GEC / EGC.
Why can't the messenger wire of similar overhead feeders, or branches be used as an EGC?

Using the bare as a neutral. Only have 4 conductors. Not

The messenger can be the EGC. Then you just need quad PLLC with 4 insulated conductors, 3 phase and a neutral.

Yes. Problem is my cable only has 3 insulated and 1 non insulated conductors. Boss man says we don’t need to run a ground. Use the bare for neutral and just drive ground rod to get a ground. I think we need to run a ground with the phase and neutral conductors

 

[electrofelon]

Using the bare as a neutral. Only have 4 conductors. Not

Yes. Problem is my cable only has 3 insulated and 1 non insulated conductors. Boss man says we don’t need to run a ground. Use the bare for neutral and just drive ground rod to get a ground. I think we need to run a ground with the phase and neutral conductors

Ask the boss man how a fault will clear when the electrons try to go thru the dirt that the ground rod is pounded into.