Does a vandalism guard have to be Listed?

[mgookin]

We manufacture outdoor light controls. When contactors at grade have twist-lock controls in urban areas, kids seem to have fun removing the control to make the lights go out. This is a hindrance to customers using our product which we manufacture in twist-lock only. We also provide a receptacle for wire-in applications, but you still end up with a twist-lock control.

Our control does not need to "see the light" (it runs on GPS). The GPS signals go through plastics just fine.

I need a box approximately 4"x4"x4" to conceal/ hide/ protect the control from kids. It can be 5 sided with screw flanges at the bottom or it could be 6 sided with a removable cover either on top or one side. Think of those little boxes used for small contactors - something like that. There will be no electrical connections in this box. It will have a 1/2" ko if they're putting a receptacle in the box, or it will have a 3.5" hole if they already have a receptacle on their contactor.

Question: Does this vandalism guard need to be listed?

Thanks!

 

[LEO2854]

We manufacture outdoor light controls. When contactors at grade have twist-lock controls in urban areas, kids seem to have fun removing the control to make the lights go out. This is a hindrance to customers using our product which we manufacture in twist-lock only. We also provide a receptacle for wire-in applications, but you still end up with a twist-lock control.

Our control does not need to "see the light" (it runs on GPS). The GPS signals go through plastics just fine.

I need a box approximately 4"x4"x4" to conceal/ hide/ protect the control from kids. It can be 5 sided with screw flanges at the bottom or it could be 6 sided with a removable cover either on top or one side. Think of those little boxes used for small contactors - something like that. There will be no electrical connections in this box. It will have a 1/2" ko if they're putting a receptacle in the box, or it will have a 3.5" hole if they already have a receptacle on their contactor.

Question: Does this vandalism guard need to be listed?

Thanks!

I don't think so it's sole purpose is to protect the photo cell,the photo cell is already rain tight and such ,so I think you're good to go.

 

[GoldDigger]

I don't think so it's sole purpose is to protect the photo cell,the photo cell is already rain tight and such ,so I think you're good to go.

It will have a 1/2" ko if they're putting a receptacle in the box

The only concern I would have is the situation where the customer installs their own receptacle inside the box. The would have to be a receptacle intended for outdoor flush mounting or else would have to be in a box inside your box. Depending on how savvy the customer is, there could be problems.
You may be better off offering a code compliant receptacle and box combination that you build and they would hard wire to instead of putting their receptacle in your box.
It is unclear how anyone would install a standard receptacle at the bottom of your plastic box.

 

[mgookin]

Hearing that I think I'll abort the 1/2" ko idea.
In the photo below, that's a UL Listed receptacle.
I'll just go with a 3.5" hole which they can place over the entire assembly.

 

[GoldDigger]

Hearing that I think I'll abort the 1/2" ko idea.
In the photo below, that's a UL Listed receptacle.
I'll just go with a 3.5" hole which they can place over the entire assembly.
View attachment 8853

Based on your picture, having the box big enough that the threaded attachment on the listed receptacle could go through the 1/2" ko into its attachment to a normal box, and the 1/2" ko is simply there to allow the vandal proof box to be held down by the same fastening that attaches the listed receptacle to its original wiring box might work, but you would have to make sure that it did not interfere with the weather seal between the receptacle and the box it is mounted to.
Even then, it seems a little flaky. I would concentrate on how to make it easy for them to secure the box on top of the receptacle if it is the type shown and is sticking out of the luminaire at some unspecified distance from the luminaire surface.

 

[mgookin]

Based on your picture, having the box big enough that the threaded attachment on the listed receptacle could go through the 1/2" ko into its attachment to a normal box, and the 1/2" ko is simply there to allow the vandal proof box to be held down by the same fastening that attaches the listed receptacle to its original wiring box might work, but you would have to make sure that it did not interfere with the weather seal between the receptacle and the box it is mounted to.
Even then, it seems a little flaky. I would concentrate on how to make it easy for them to secure the box on top of the receptacle if it is the type shown and is sticking out of the luminaire at some unspecified distance from the luminaire surface.

Atop a luminaire is not a concern. It's contactors at grade which are of concern; usually along a sidewalk, at the foot of a bridge, etc.

When a contactor does not have an existing twist-lock receptacle, most people just put an LB on the side of the contactor at the hole from the previous wire-in photocontrol, then go from the LB to a female terminal adapter and screw the receptacle into that. In this case the box will install between the female terminal adapter and the receptacle. See cad dwg below.

 

[mgookin]

Here's an actual photograph of the installation I was describing.

 

[GoldDigger]

Here's an actual photograph of the installation I was describing.

View attachment 8855

Very helpful. So your possibilities are
1. to run the threaded part of the receptacle through a hole in the side of your box and into the LB where it attaches by the supplied nut (which should not be a problem for the receptacle but may be considered an issue for the attachment of the receptacle to the LB) or
2. to have the box attach to the underside or top side of the receptacle flange where it comes through the box, or
3. to have the box fit over the whole thing and attach somehow (cable ties? U-bracket with nuts inside the box?) to the LB.

 

[mgookin]

Thanks for the opinions. It sounds like there's a concensus that it does not need to be Listed or liquid tight, but I think I'll keep it liquid tight so that it does not fill with water, snow, critters, etc. and freeze. Not needing to be listed keeps the cost down and the options broader.

Thanks again. This site is invaluable.

 

[hurk27]

Since you manufacture these, why not design a hard wire unit instead of only producing the twistloc version, wouldn't this open up a door way to many more uses of your product?

If you think about it, the twistloc PC's were all but eliminated in most all lighting except some dusk till dawn fixtures and some roadway fixtures and even then I have seen that many manufactures have changed to hard wired button PC's mounted inside of them.

 

[mgookin]

Since you manufacture these, why not design a hard wire unit instead of only producing the twistloc version, wouldn't this open up a door way to many more uses of your product?

If you think about it, the twistloc PC's were all but eliminated in most all lighting except some dusk till dawn fixtures and some roadway fixtures and even then I have seen that many manufactures have changed to hard wired button PC's mounted inside of them.

If you look at the photo in Post #4 above, that's what we presently sell as a hard wire unit. That's a standard 1/2" npt and the same wiring method used by any other control.

FYI: We are in the process of redesigning the circular printed circuit board to be a rectangle with all but the antenna pointing down, for integration into cobra heads for a manufacturer whose name starts with P and ends in hilips. They make a 100,000 hour LED cobra head. Our product makes the luminaire last longer & reduces warranty work because it causes it to burn less than with a photocontrol and only switch once per day with no performance decay like you get with photocontrols. It also helps the customer realize the energy savings they are expecting. One complaint of salesmen, installers & manufacturers is that customers pay big money for LED lighting on dedicated services and the electric bill is not as low as was represented, and they visit the site to find the lights on at 10:30am because they never changed out the controls when they installed the new lights. Integrating our technology into their luminaire forces a solution to that.

As to a hard wire stand alone which does not use a twist-lock receptacle, it raises the issue of the customer pointing the antenna up towards the sky. We've been addressing it since day one but haven't produced it yet.

With our twist-lock and that receptacle, you can control any and all outdoor lighting applications and technologies today. The vandalism guard is a solution to the kids messing with controls in areas where the jurisdiction does not want twist-locks.

 

[Jraef]

UL will not care as long as it does not interfere with connections, grounding, power etc. They primarily care about preventing fires, not vandalism.

Why not just put it on a long pole out of reach though?

 

[GoldDigger]

UL will not care as long as it does not interfere with connections, grounding, power etc. They primarily care about preventing fires, not vandalism.

Why not just put it on a long pole out of reach though?

Somehow, I think that a long free-standing pole reaching up from a piece of street furniture would be even more attractive to vandalize.
See post #7.

 

[mgookin]

Somehow, I think that a long free-standing pole reaching up from a piece of street furniture would be even more attractive to vandalize.
See post #7.

Post #7 installation is at RSW International Airport. Anyone messing around there is going to have airplanes so close to their scalp that they're not going to be paying attention to that light control. Alongside highways is generally not a problem.

As to a long pole, it would have to be a very heavy schedule pipe in a high wind region; not practical.

Many urban installations are nothing more than a concrete pedestal with a small enclosure for the contactor and a hard wired photocontrol mounted on the side of the enclosure. They'll use my control with an LB if I can make it such that kids can't mess with it.

Right now they can hack that photocontrol with an I-Phone but most of them don't know that (yet). Our control can not be hacked by an I-Phone.

 

[PetrosA]

I had a few thoughts - I wonder why they're installing the LB so it sticks out so far? I'd try and mount it vertically so it would bring the unit closer to the enclosure and make it less likely to bang into (although judging from what I see here in Lancaster, pedestrian safety around control boxes isn't a big priority ).

Second, I'm thinking of something along these lines. A simple wire cage made out of 10 or 8 gauge SS. that could be attached to the enclosure with tamper proof screws:

 

[mgookin]

Thanks for the nifty drawing Peter. But I'm concerned that a cage would act as a Faraday cage and impede the GPS radio signal. A cage will also collect leaves, snow, ice, etc. and still provide kids a way to get something in there to rotate the controller. As to turning the LB as in your drawing, unless you have enough height to get above the top of the enclosure, that side of the LB does not provide enough clearance for the controller which is about 3.5" diameter.

Last night on the way home I picked up a 4x4x4 pvc j-box for $9. It will work fine for a top mount installation but I'll need one with min. 6" height and a front removable cover for side mounts, and that concerns me that it's getting too big (heavy). This brings us back to the original question - does it have to be Listed? And that answer seems to be no.

I'll keep scratching my head... No hurry.

 

[LEO2854]

UL will not care as long as it does not interfere with connections, grounding, power etc. They primarily care about preventing fires, not vandalism.

Why not just put it on a long pole out of reach though?

Good idea even a 10' stick of RMC would do the trick.

 

[PetrosA]

Thanks for the nifty drawing Peter. But I'm concerned that a cage would act as a Faraday cage and impede the GPS radio signal. A cage will also collect leaves, snow, ice, etc. and still provide kids a way to get something in there to rotate the controller. As to turning the LB as in your drawing, unless you have enough height to get above the top of the enclosure, that side of the LB does not provide enough clearance for the controller which is about 3.5" diameter.

Last night on the way home I picked up a 4x4x4 pvc j-box for $9. It will work fine for a top mount installation but I'll need one with min. 6" height and a front removable cover for side mounts, and that concerns me that it's getting too big (heavy). This brings us back to the original question - does it have to be Listed? And that answer seems to be no.

I'll keep scratching my head... No hurry.

Whatever you put over it can collect leaves, snow or ice, just as the snow or ice can sit or form right on the controller. I rather doubt that those things will block the GPS signal, but you could test that easily enough. There could be a Farraday effect from a cage, but it would also be easy enough to test. Anything you use could potentially be unscrewed or bashed off with a baseball bat if the tampering kids are serious enough about destruction.