Does anyone REALLY solder splices anymore

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JohnConnolly

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Does anyone REALLY solder splices anymore?

I learn new and interesting things every day in this field so enlighten me.

If so, what method do you use? My grandfather used to have a ladle...ladel....a big steel spoon filled with molten solder that he carried from box to box. I still have it by the way, WITH the solder still in it from his last job I guess.
 
I inspected a job where the homeowner had done his own wiring and had soldered all the splices. I asked him why he didn't use wirenuts, and he replied "I don't trust them".:rolleyes:

Chris
 
I don't see how you could be competetive by soldering and taping all the

connections, also, all the little changes that have to be made would be a

lot more time consuming.

I wouldn't want to be soldering a light fixture off a ladder and have OSHA

pop in for a look around, what kind of PPE is required to do such tasks ??

I've never seen a wirenut fail on it's own, It takes the talents of special

people to make them fail. JMO
 
raider1 said:
I inspected a job where the homeowner had done his own wiring and had soldered all the splices. I asked him why he didn't use wirenuts, and he replied "I don't trust them".:rolleyes:

Chris
Click to expand...

I sure hope you explained that wirenuts, and the newer mechanical connections were far superior to soldering, a soldered joint can have cold flow defects, fracture under stress, and easily corrode over time.

Another issue, did he check with the manufacture of the copper, to see if it had been treated, and may not accept some of the solder products?
 
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I sure hope you explained that wirenuts, and the newer mechanical connections were far superior to soldering, a soldered joint can have cold flow defects, fracture under stress, and easily corrode over time.
Click to expand...

I did, but he was set on soldering the splices.

Another issue, did he check with the manufacture of the copper, to see if it had been treated, and may not accept some of the solder products?
Click to expand...

I have never heard of copper wire that you could not solder. Do you know of a manufacturer that does not allow solder splices?

Chris
 
What a coincidence. I started up a small project yesterday where the electrician soldered all the 16 AWG & smaller signal & analog wires.
Course he also grounded the analog instrument shield wires at both ends and used 16 copper wire for the type R thermocouple wiring back to the PLC panel.
 
I wired a couple for a builder who requested this. He's a new builder in my area, and claimed that his spark in his regular area (Frederick MD to Wash DC corridor) solders his connections, which is why he asked me to do the same. I got a little electric solder pot to carry around. Just get a bunch of connections twisted up and bent downward out of the box, and walk around dipping. Gotta let each connection dwell in the pot a little bit to get the copper heated up enough to suck the solder between the twists. The soldering process added almost no time to the job, but the subsequent taping of the joints sure did. For the second job, I got a "tape tight" tool that seemed to help quite a bit.
 
raider1 said:
I did, but he was set on soldering the splices.



I have never heard of copper wire that you could not solder. Do you know of a manufacturer that does not allow solder splices?

Chris
Click to expand...

So we stay on track here we are discussing solid building wire 14Ga and 12Ga You need to check the manufactures specs. some of the material used in building wire is treated different, and requires special flux to bond the solder, smaller Ga wires for wiring controls, are not in the building wire class, and are treated to accept solder, and some are tinned to provide a better joint.

The coating on some building wire reacts with the solder and may cause voids that weaken the joint, some of the spec information can be found at http://www.astm.org/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/SNEWS/FEBRUARY_2004/actd_feb04.html?L+mystore+sklq7277
Not all wire is produced under the same specs.

Just as a note, wirenuts score thru the flexable finish coatings on building wire, to make for a good contact.
 
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When I started school in 1970, we had to learn how to solder splices, but that was the last time that I ever die it. It might have been because of my old school instructor or a state requirement at the time, not sure.
Lou.
 
so are you fluxing them with a paint brush? and then dipping the tips in a solder pot? I have been tempted to try it, but the carefully applied and pull tested wire nut has never failed me, and is more friendly to the rest of the sparky world as far as amending the box later.
 
I don't remember using flux it might have been rosin core solder but we used a large soldering iron and i do our instructor telling us he used a solder pot. Wire nuts weren't used it was the old rubber and friction tape job. Over the years I have been in some older houses that had solder splices.
Lou
 
what do you do if you have stranded wire? can that be soldered? do you use a western splice first? or just twist the solid wires together like you would for a wirenut?
 
I don't know of any contractors that still solder their splices. Many people have never herd of " The Flate Earth Society" and yet it does exist :grin: . There are those slow to embrace new ideas.

I can't find any information where screw on connectors ( wire nuts ) are considered dangerous. I would think that if soldering splices was such a superior method of making connections there would be some information out there and I don't see any.

The Flat Earth Society does accept new members. :wink:
 
growler said:
I can't find any information where screw on connectors ( wire nuts ) are considered dangerous.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's the argument at all. In my case, with this one particular builder, he was able to sell the fact that an old-school soldered connection was a superior connection. Whether it actually is or not is irrelevant. If it was just one more tool in his arsenal to help him sell the home.

Like I've said before... whatever they want to pay for, I'm selling.
 
Solder splices

Solder splices

JohnConnolly said:
Does anyone REALLY solder splices anymore?

I learn new and interesting things every day in this field so enlighten me.

If so, what method do you use? My grandfather used to have a ladle...ladel....a big steel spoon filled with molten solder that he carried from box to box. I still have it by the way, WITH the solder still in it from his last job I guess.
Click to expand...
I started in this buisness as an electronics tech which gave me a great electrical theory background. Then I found I could make 20 bucks an hour in the early 80s and all I thought was I am going to be rich!! one of my first experiences was at a county prison I was working in and the old county inspector wanted to see the solder joints that were in the county job specs. This caused a panic across the board and my boss went to great lengths to show that wirenuts were an approved solderless wire connector. I truly believe that it is a better connection based solely on surface area and if the joint heats up it has a good chance of repairing itself by remelting the solder into a better connection. If I get the chance to set it up I will make a few soldered joints and a few wirenut joints get at least a 100 kva xformer and push the connections to thier failure point which is around 225 amps I think. It will be difficult to set up but this discussion has got my curiosity and I want to actually see it myself not hear about it second hand
 
quogueelectric said:
if the joint heats up it has a good chance of repairing itself by remelting the solder into a better connection.
Click to expand...

If the joint heats to the point where it flows, it will most likely crystallize, ending up with a poor connection.
 
I dont know for sure

I dont know for sure

This is my whole point. Why did it go by the wayside just for speed of installation? I am certainly not suggesting someone do this for free. If you are wealthy enough to pay for a gold plated installation why not have a code compliant way to follow a procedure. how about a soldered and wirenutted joint you may have the best of both worlds. would the wirenut manufacturer void his warranty because the joint now has solder on it. I dont know for sure.
 
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