Does anyone REALLY solder splices anymore

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I've worked on hundreds of soldered splices, and as far as I can tell the cloth tape fails long before the solder. At least on the old stuff. Some of these soldered connections are easily 50-60yrs old. Maybe older. As long as you don't touch the wires they are fine.... Otherwise you'll have bare conductor and a nice soldered joint!

Can't see a wirenut lasting that long.

Can't see soldering wires together either.

Tom:)
 
solder joint

solder joint

satcom said:
If the joint heats to the point where it flows, it will most likely crystallize, ending up with a poor connection.
why will it most likely crystalize I think you are discribing a cold solder joint. If a joint was heating up to the point of failure you would think that all conductors involved were sufficiently heated to cause a good solder joint.
 
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Davis9 said:
I've worked on hundreds of soldered splices, and as far as I can tell the cloth tape fails long before the solder. At least on the old stuff. Some of these soldered connections are easily 50-60yrs old. Maybe older. As long as you don't touch the wires they are fine.... Otherwise you'll have bare conductor and a nice soldered joint!

Can't see a wirenut lasting that long.

Can't see soldering wires together either.

Tom:)

Yes, they did some nice work, with the old steel and copper clad wiring, K&T wiring was a craft, most of the craftsman drew up a wiring scheme, and signed their name to the work, something you will not find today.
Many of the older homes where we rewire, we often find some of these old wiring plans, tucked away in the attic.

Soldering, if the wire is correctly prepared, and the soldered by someone that has the knack down, it can be a reliable connection.
 
My code book is in the work truck, but doesn't article 250 forbid solder splices for bond wires?

This is a true story. I got to solder today. A custom house I am finishing had the iron worker today. His work is incredible. The railing around the radius stair case cost $100K. It was worth it. He made a custom pewter countertop for the bar. It was three pieces. He had to solder the seams together. The tops of the counter soldered together easily. The edges of the counter were very thin and radiused, multiple times. He couldn't solder them. I whipped out me Weller 260 wat soldering gun and made it happen.

The General wouldn't pay me to work on the project, so I left him with my trusty Weller. The problem was that the pewter counter top dissipated heat to quikly for a good solder joint.

I was able to make it happen with my Weller. I used home made pewter soldering rod.

BTW, this is an $18,000 counter top and the guy is losing money. It is beautiful. Words don't do it justice.

If anyone is interested, PM me. This is the most beautiful detail I can remember seeing. I have seen alot of over the top stuff.
 
sparky_magoo said:
My code book is in the work truck, but doesn't article 250 forbid solder splices for bond wires?

I think so.

250.8 Connection of Grounding and Bonding Equipment. Grounding conductors and bonding jumpers shall be connected by exothermic welding, listed pressure connectors, listed clamps, or other listed means. Connection devices or fittings that depend solely on solder shall not be used. Sheet metal screws shall not be used to connect grounding conductors or connection devices to enclosures.
However, technically speaking, there is no "connection device or fitting" if you twist the wires together, solder, and tape.

250.70 does clearly prohibit solder connecting GECs to electrodes.
 
I don't see how the outgassing as an effect of the soldering would be environmentally friendly.

Seriously I don't think there is any valid reason to use solder over wirenuts. There are a gazillion wirenuts in use, and properly installed they are fine. I checked them all.
 
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ground wires

ground wires

In my area you need either greenies or ferrules to pass a rough inspection this is a good argument for the inspectors side. I dont even know whos rule this is I never argue with the inspector my father was an inspector and I know where arguing got me with him.
 
I was taught that solder, -having a higher resistance than copper- while making a mechanically solid joint, does have more resistance than a copper to copper connection.... in the end resulting in more voltage drop, however negligible.
i also feel that the way i was taught to twist joints more or less reduces the wirenut more to the function of an insulator than a connection device...
 
izak said:
i also feel that the way i was taught to twist joints more or less reduces the wirenut more to the function of an insulator than a connection device...
There is a trap in that thinking though, and I'm not picking on you, I'm just making a neutral observation: That mentality can lead to guys not twisting their wirenuts on tight, since they're thinking about how great their twist was and how the wirenut's kind of an afterthought.

I've seen some great twisters that leave the wirenuts loose enough that hooking up devices a month or two down the road resulted in some falling off. :)

So, I always give equal respect to the twist and the security of the wirenut in my mind, to not slip up.

Might be a little philosophical for wirenuts, but... :D
 
emahler said:
what is so wrong with planned obsolescence?

.

works in nature also, but at 65 I'm not sure I'm that big a fan of the program :)
 
I solder joints periodically with K&T repairs and relocations of existing wiring in remodels of original construction ranging from 1890-1965. IMO the solder is mearly a sealant for the mechanical splice, be it a western-union, or pig-tail... As much of the original wiring is 40-100+ years old, and still working fine unless abused or otherwise damaged should be some proof of technique. And nessesary as the splices are concealed, in J-boxes I dont see it as nessasary or economical.

But to answer the original question - apparently this guy in a recent thread is still soldering as a matter of practice.
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=87573
 
yes i solder all joints that parallel hot feeds; receps, switches. i connect light fixtures via wire nuts. i apprenticed under an EC that has been an electrician for almost 50 years now. that's all he knows, and its all i know. about 70% of the residential work you see in the area i work most will have soldered connections. most of the EC's used to work in the union when it was big here, and that's how all of them were taught, so that's how all of their employees have been taught. i feel more comfortable with my method and its just a matter of preference. i haven't used it as a reason to sell my work.
 
izak said:
I was taught that solder, -having a higher resistance than copper- while making a mechanically solid joint, does have more resistance than a copper to copper connection.... in the end resulting in more voltage drop, however negligible.
i also feel that the way i was taught to twist joints more or less reduces the wirenut more to the function of an insulator than a connection device...

A soldered joint has very low resistance (almost unmeasurable) because the area between the soldered wires is 10 to 100 times the cross section of the wire. Furthermore, there is no "contact resistance" because the solder is fused to the wire.

Also, a soldered joint has a more stable resistance than a pressure joint.

When I was doing isntrumentation we always soldered the parts of the circuit internal to the Wheatstone bridges because a change of resistance of a few microohms was significant.

There was a comment in an earlier post about melting the solder. In a properly soldered joint with standard insulation the insulation will be burned before the solder melts.
 
Yep

Yep

We always solder our yard light connections. Never had a problem when doing this. Using the supplied quick connectors is a guaranteed service call.
 
Most good crimps are superior in mechanical strength to solder. I don't believe that soldering the ground wire is allowed as it must hold on long enough to open the OCPD in a fault, and a good fault can melt open the solder joint first.

I do mostly industrial wiring and home wiring drives me nuts. You can't access anything, a contortionist couldn't get to half this stuff, there's no schematic, and only the Shadow knows what science experiment is buried inside the walls because it was cheaper to have my cousin Billy Bob than to hire a pro (though in some areas Billy Bob is the local pro...).

With the way the ninnies are running around, lead will be outlawed. They already bar lead on circuits in Europe and the Peoples Republic of California has followed. I saw on the history channel that the miltary is looking for lead free bullets at the behest of the greenies so we won't harm our mother earth while killing our fellow man.

How I survived a child hood with both parents smoking two packs a day around us, lead paint, no bicycle helmet, no seat belt, riding in the bed of the truck, BB gun wars, never wearing safety glasses in shop class, swinging in trees like tarzan, emulating Evel Kneivel, Kung Fu, and Bruce Lee, drinking water from the garden hose, DDT at night to kill the skeeters, and saccarin and red dye number 6 in our food, I'll never know. I'm so old that our scientists thought there was going to be a new ice age instead of global warming. Then again, I see a lot of the same ice age guys have come around to the earth is melting in their dotage.

But I digress.

I avoid solder because it has an uncertain bond strength, and can't be relied on as a mechanically strong joint. Crimp (or wire nut) and strain relief.

Matt
 
megloff11x said:
I avoid solder because it has an uncertain bond strength, and can't be relied on as a mechanically strong joint. Crimp (or wire nut) and strain relief.

I believe that this is the exact reason that soldered splices are required to be mechanically and electrically sound _prior_ to soldering.

I bet that if there were enough interest to actually get UL to test it, that using a crimp to join the conductors, and then dipping in the solder pot, would be a fine way to make a soldered joint.

-Jon
 
I avoid solder because it has an uncertain bond strength, and can't be relied on as a mechanically strong joint. Crimp (or wire nut) and strain relief.
do you have data to back this up, or is this an opinion that's been handed down?
 
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