Does under-cabinet lighting receptacle installed in cabinet require GFCI protection?

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

DaveTap

Senior Member
Location
Currently Flowery Branch, GA
Hi again guys... I was recently reading a thread about cord connected dishwashers and garbage disposals and it made me wonder. in a residential kitchen within 6' of sink do switched receptacles installed in upper-cabinets for under-cabinet lighting require GFCI protection? If so should the switch be upstream or downstream of the GFCI or does it matter? Also is it allowed to replace those switches with dimmers if controlling a receptacle?
 
Last edited:
How long has it been since you read a Code book? 6 feet from the kitchen sink got tossed out over 12 years ago.

That said, how high over the c'top are the receps? If they're over 20", no.
 
480sparky said:
How long has it been since you read a Code book? 6 feet from the kitchen sink got tossed out over 12 years ago.

That said, how high over the c'top are the receps? If they're over 20", no.
Click to expand...
Why 20"?

The "current" Code says kitchen receptacles installed to serve countertop surfaces must be GFCI. Installed "in" above-counter cabinets IMO are next-to-never installed to serve countertop surfaces.
 
DaveTap said:
Hi again guys... I was recently reading a thread about cord connected dishwashers and garbage disposals and it made me wonder. in a residential kitchen within 6' of sink do switched receptacles installed in upper-cabinets for under-cabinet lighting require GFCI protection? If so should the switch be upstream or downstream of the GFCI or does it matter? Also is it allowed to replace those switches with dimmers if controlling a receptacle?
Click to expand...

No, you are not allowed to put a receptacle on a dimmer switch. Someone might plug something into that receptacle that isn't compatible with a dimmer. Or that something might draw more current that the dimmer is rated for.
 
Smart $ said:
Why 20"?

The "current" Code says kitchen receptacles installed to serve countertop surfaces must be GFCI. Installed "in" above-counter cabinets IMO are next-to-never installed to serve countertop surfaces.
Click to expand...

210.8(A)(6) and 210.52(B)(5)



steve66 said:
No, you are not allowed to put a receptacle on a dimmer switch. Someone might plug something into that receptacle that isn't compatible with a dimmer. Or that something might draw more current that the dimmer is rated for.
Click to expand...

There are listed receptacles designed for use with dimmers.
 
480sparky said:
210.8(A)(6) and 210.52(B)(5)...
Click to expand...
210.8(A)(6) is what I stated (paraphrased).

On the other, I believe you meant 210.52(C)(5)... but...

210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets. This section
provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle
outlets. The receptacles required by this section
shall be in addition to any receptacle that is:
...
(3) Located within cabinets or cupboards, or
...
Click to expand...
 
Smart $ said:
210.8(A)(6) is what I stated (paraphrased).

On the other, I believe you meant 210.52(C)(5)... but...
Click to expand...

Yes.... my keyboard doesn't have the NEC memorized.

But the referenced section reads: (5) Receptacle Outlet Location. Receptacle outlets shall be located on or above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above, the countertop.
 
480sparky said:
Yes.... my keyboard doesn't have the NEC memorized.

But the referenced section reads: (5) Receptacle Outlet Location. Receptacle outlets shall be located on or above, but not more than 500 mm (20 in.) above, the countertop.
Click to expand...
And that is regarding receptacles which serve the countertop surface... but if the receptacle is installed in a cabinet, the general statement of 210.52 trumps 210.52(C)(5) [see earlier quote of general statement].

Perhaps a distinguishing technicality is access to the receptacle. I'm refering to a receptacle which must be accessed from inside the cabinet (i.e. the plug is also inside the cabinet). Perhaps the OP is refering to a receptacle's box being inside the cabinet, with face plate on the bottom exterior of the cabinet. Don't know at this point... ???
 
Smart $ said:
And that is regarding receptacles which serve the countertop surface... but if the receptacle is installed in a cabinet, the general statement of 210.52 trumps 210.52(C)(5) [see earlier quote of general statement].

Perhaps a distinguishing technicality is access to the receptacle. I'm refering to a receptacle which must be accessed from inside the cabinet (i.e. the plug is also inside the cabinet). Perhaps the OP is refering to a receptacle's box being inside the cabinet, with face plate on the bottom exterior of the cabinet. Don't know at this point... ???
Click to expand...

If the recep is within 20" of the c'top, then is "serves the c'top" and must be GFCI'd. If it's above 20", it doesn't serve the c-top and not required to be GFCI'd.

Normally, there's 18" betwixt the c'top and the uppers though.
 
480sparky said:
If the recep is within 20" of the c'top, then is "serves the c'top" and must be GFCI'd. If it's above 20", it doesn't serve the c-top and not required to be GFCI'd.

Normally, there's 18" betwixt the c'top and the uppers though.
Click to expand...
So you saying that a receptacle inside an above-counter cabinet, and plugged into from within the cabinet, that the receptacle must be GFCI protected if 20" or less above the countertop surface?

If yes, I respectifully disagree. I say that receptacle is not installed to serve the countertop surface and is not required to be GFCI protected.
 
Smart $ said:
So you saying that a receptacle inside an above-counter cabinet, and plugged into from within the cabinet, that the receptacle must be GFCI protected if 20" or less above the countertop surface?

If yes, I respectifully disagree. I say that receptacle is not installed to serve the countertop surface and is not required to be GFCI protected.
Click to expand...

No... I totally agree with you.

BUT: If there's, say, 24" between the c'top and the uppers, any recep above 20" does not service the c'top either. So no GFCI is required.
 
I know appliance garages that sit on a counter top are included in the GFCI requirement but they don't count toward the require receptacles for the 2' 4' rule.

The 20" rule in 210.52(C)(5) is for the required receptacles to meet the 2 foot 4 foot requirements, it is not a rule for defining whether a receptacle needs to be GFCI protected or not, the general rule is if a receptacle in installed to serve the counter top then is has to be GFCI protected.

If we look at the GP outlet requirement it has the same kind of requirement that a wall receptacle can not be counted if it is over 5?' above the floor, this is because appliances in these areas come with only a 6' cord, so it can't be counted in the 6'/12' rule, on a kitchen counter top it's 20" because kitchen appliances only come with a 24" cord.

Now if the kitchen appliances only have a 24" cord would it reach a receptacle in a cabinet even if the receptacle was only 18" above the counter top? I don't think so as it would have to go around the bottom of the cabinet, so I would say a receptacle put in a cabinet was not installed to serve the countertop, Now look at the appliance garage, it sits in most cases right on the counter top, and a receptacle located in one can't be counted in the 2'/4' rule (210.52(C)(5) but since it does serve the counter top as it was installed for it is required to be GFCI protected because a appliance with a 24" cord sitting on the counter top can reach it.
 
Smart $ said:
And that is regarding receptacles which serve the countertop surface... but if the receptacle is installed in a cabinet, the general statement of 210.52 trumps 210.52(C)(5) [see earlier quote of general statement].

Perhaps a distinguishing technicality is access to the receptacle. I'm refering to a receptacle which must be accessed from inside the cabinet (i.e. the plug is also inside the cabinet). Perhaps the OP is refering to a receptacle's box being inside the cabinet, with face plate on the bottom exterior of the cabinet. Don't know at this point... ???
Click to expand...

In this case I'm thinking of wall mounted receptacles with access cut through the back of the cabinet. Never did the box facing down in the bottom as EMT is required here. Have done FMC whips under the cabinet for hard-wired fixtures but then flooring and cabinet guy always screw them up, and I never like poking through drywall with anything other than drywall rings anyway.
 
hurk27 said:
...

The 20" rule in 210.52(C)(5) is for the required receptacles to meet the 2 foot 4 foot requirements, it is not a rule for defining whether a receptacle needs to be GFCI protected or not, the general rule is if a receptacle in installed to serve the counter top then is has to be GFCI protected.

...
Click to expand...
So say you install a receptacle at 16" above countertop for under cabinet lighting. Does this receptacle need to be GFCI protected? I believe most AHJ will interpret the rules as GFCI protection required
 
Smart $ said:
So say you install a receptacle at 16" above countertop for under cabinet lighting. Does this receptacle need to be GFCI protected? I believe most AHJ will interpret the rules as GFCI protection required
Click to expand...

I would expect it also if it also serves the counter top, no different then a switched receptacle in a bathroom for a nite light, in that case it just has to be in the bathroom and it will require a GFCI.

steve66 said:
I would assume (and hope) that those are made so a standard 120V appliance plug won't work with them. So I don't think that's what the OP had in mind.
Click to expand...

The ones I have seen are a make over of an old DC plug that looks kind of like a twist loc.
 
hurk27 said:
Smart $ said:
So say you install a receptacle at 16" above countertop for under cabinet lighting. Does this receptacle need to be GFCI protected? I believe most AHJ will interpret the rules as GFCI protection required
Click to expand...
I would expect it also if it also serves the counter top, no different then a switched receptacle in a bathroom for a nite light, in that case it just has to be in the bathroom and it will require a GFCI.

...
Click to expand...
But the point is, it is not intended to serve the countertop surface. Say it's a duplex receptacle and two under-cabinet luminaires are to be plugged into it. GFCI protection required or not?
 
I say GFCI is required. If the recptacles are located in the back splash between the counter top & the bottom of the cabinet Yes GFCI required.

If the recptacles are inside the cabinet the GFCI not required. I have always used the hardwired variety so didn't have to worry

about GFCI protection
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top