Don't open those padmounts!!!!

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mdshunk said:
A couple reasons. It is not illegal for me to do so, and I am a strong civil libertarian.
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I am not so sure you can says it is legal.

breaking and entering
n.

1) the criminal act of entering a residence or other enclosed property through the slightest amount of force (even pushing open a door), without authorization. If there is intent to commit a crime, this is burglary. If there is no such intent, the breaking and entering alone is probably at least illegal trespass, which is a misdemeanor crime.

2) the criminal charge for the above.
See also: burglary trespass
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http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?selected=98&bold=||||
 
mdshunk said:
Yes.

Here's one. I have a few more I can link you to if you don't like this one.
http://www.alleghenypower.com/ForYourHome/36775_Underground Electrical Distribution Guide_Jan05.PDF
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Thank you for linking us, but would you be you be a little more specific about which of Allegheny Power's 21 pages of poop allows us to enter their equipment? I don't read as fast as some here.

I don't doubt you one bit Marc. Haven't read their Undeground Electrical Distribution Guidlines yet, but I'll bet you must have one heck of a smoke shoveler on your team in the event of an 'oh oh'.

Best Wishes Everyone
 
mdshunk said:
Actually, in my case I can. I have been empowered to do so by the utility's rules book.
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Ya better take a look at the rule book, the link you provided to Allegheny doesn't give you permission to break and enter.
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charlie said:
Ya better take a look at the rule book, the link you provided to Allegheny doesn't give you permission to break and enter.
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Indeed it does include a requirement to run pipes to certain places with no restrictions on how that is to be accomplished at the transformer end.
Furthermore, breaking and entering only applies to real property as well as inhabited vehicles and vessels.
 
mdshunk said:
Indeed it does include a requirement to run pipes to certain places with no restrictions on how that is to be accomplished at the transformer end.
Furthermore, breaking and entering only applies to real property as well as inhabited vehicles and vessels.
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Marc, I am going to let this conversation go. In my opinion, you are wrong and you may end up getting prosecuted at some time in the future for these type of actions. As a civil libertarian, I would think that you would agree that other people's rights terminate at your property's boundaries. A shed in your back yard is not inhabited; therefore by your reasoning, I could cut the lock to get to your tools so I could use them as long as I put another lock in its place. :-?

You may now have the last word as I will not respond to this thread again. :mad:
 
charlie said:
Marc, I am going to let this conversation go. In my opinion, you are wrong and you may end up getting prosecuted at some time in the future for these type of actions. As a civil libertarian, I would think that you would agree that other people's rights terminate at your property's boundaries. A shed in your back yard is not inhabited; therefore by your reasoning, I could cut the lock to get to your tools so I could use them as long as I put another lock in its place. :-?

You may now have the last word as I will not respond to this thread again. :mad:
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A shed is real property.

I am required to enter a padmount transformer by the utility to perform certain operations.

I defy anyone to find me an example of anyone who has been prosecuted for opening a transformer who 1) hasn't done any damage and 2) hasn't stolen any power. You will not find any such exmples.
 
Wow, quite a difference of opinion on this topic.

Keeping in mind that rules vary from place to place, here in BC if I were to get caught opening any utility enclosure without explicit permission I would be prosecuted for criminal tresspass and lose my license to do electrical work.
 
Rules vary from state to state, and from one utility to another, a public utility may have one set of rules, and a private or city owned utility another, for example some city owned utilities hire private contractors or qualified EC's to run pole lines, and underground, services, they do require the contractors to have qualified people, and usually ask them to post a bond, and provide proof of insurances, liability with high voltage coverages and underground coverages, not your normal insurance, and workers comp covering the high voltage risk, before they are permitted to work on the systems.
 
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Marc-

I'm a strong civil libertarian too. I used to think of myself as a conservative republican until they had the reigns and spent and grew government worse than the dems before them. [/OffTopicRant]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing here (I've cut seals to replace services, and cut locks to do same when I didn't want to wait 4 hours for poco to show up) but how is a pad mount transformer not "real property"?

real property
n. 1) all land, structures, firmly attached and integrated equipment (such as light fixtures or a well pump), anything growing on the land, and all "interests" in the property, which may include the right to future ownership (remainder), right to occupy for a period of time (tenancy or life estate), the right to drill for oil, the right to get the property back (a reversion) if it is no longer used for its current purpose (such as use for a hospital, school or city hall), use of airspace (condominium) or an easement across another's property. Real property should be thought of as a group of rights like a bundle of sticks which can be divided. It is distinguished from personal property which is made up of movable items. 2) one of the principal areas of law like contracts, negligence, probate, family law and criminal law.
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http://dictionary.law.com/default2.asp?typed=real+property&type=1&submit1.x=0&submit1.y=0&submit1=Look+up
 
mdshunk said:
I am required to enter a padmount transformer by the utility to perform certain operations.
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If there is any evidence of contract or agreement with utility, this should make him an agent of the utility, with full access privledges.

mdshunk said:
I defy anyone to find me an example of anyone who has been prosecuted for opening a transformer who 1) hasn't done any damage and 2) hasn't stolen any power. You will not find any such exmples.
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My best effort to find such reference on LexisNexis used the following search terms.

("transformer access" OR "opened transformer" OR "entered transformer") AND (prosecuted OR arrested OR fined)

This search returned one article regarding an electrician who was electrocuted in a vault.

No one was fined, procesuted or arrested. This article used the term "arrested" to describe the motion of the main switch blade, after faulty design in the load-circuit interrupter cause the death. No fault was attributed to the electrician who followed appropriate safety procedures.

EC&M Electrical Construction & Maintenance, August 1, 2004
Switchgear Malfunction Results in an Electrician's Death.
SECTION: Vol. 103 No. 8 ISSN: 0013-4260
Byline: John A. Palmer, Ph.D., P.E., Knott Laboratory, Inc.

Soory, was attempting more searches, before called away to wire-up a portable spa.
 
Forgot to add, my building department only grants permits to the utility (subcontractor) for tasks involving utility property, including residential service drops.

If Marc can only gain access to utility's transformers or vaults without similar-required permit(s) then he could get nailed for operating without a permit.
 
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this is a case where the rules are not going to change, but the good part is that only people who feel they know what they are doing are going to break them. And pot growhouse experts, who are quite good at breaking into pads for theft reasons, and I have seen AMAZING power theft hook-ups, that were brilliant in design. gutter stlye taps done under ground on 4/0 live...wow.
 
mdshunk said:
and I am a strong civil libertarian.
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:confused:

I really don't understand what "civil liberties" have to do with this. If you carry that argument to its logical conclusion, then opening sealed utility compartments is akin to climbing a pole, pulling the cutout, and tapping in your service conductors to the can or the triplex. Might as well connect your telephone and cable lines while you're up there too.
 
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