double pole breakers

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memyselfandI

memyselfandI

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Hampton Roads, Virginia
Can you use 2-single pole breakers to feed a 208V 1PH A/C unit? Doesn't it have to be a common trip or can you just put on a tie bar across the two? The only articles I can come up with is 240.20(B)(1&2) and 210.4(B)Anywhere else I am missing?
 
When you put the listed handle ties on the breaker you will satisfy the requirements. The handle ties will make both circuits trip.

You can't use a nail thru the breaker handle as I have seen.
 
Dennis Alwon said:
When you put the listed handle ties on the breaker you will satisfy the requirements.
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I didn't know you could buy these. Doesn't the breaker have to have a 2 pole internal trip?
 
Dennis Alwon said:
It actually uses the words "with identified handle ties"
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So all you have to do is hang a tag on the nail with the words "handle tie" on the tag...thus the nail will be identified as a handle tie...J/K...couldn't help it:D
 
Chris6245 said:
So all you have to do is hang a tag on the nail with the words "handle tie" on the tag...thus the nail will be identified as a handle tie...J/K...couldn't help it:D
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Hey I hadn't thought of that one. The sad truth is it would probably get by with some inspectors. "Oh yeah thars the tag"
 
A handle tie, listed or not, will not guarantee that both poles will trip should one pole call for a trip. 'A 2-pole breaker may look like a 2 single pole breakers simply fastened together and a handle tie attached to the toggles but they are totally different. The 2-pole breaker is internally tied together such that if one pole trips it will trip the other pole regardless of the "handle tie." The only thing the handle tie brings to the party is when the breaker is manually operated. The handle tie assures that both poles open manually together.
Should you take (2) 1-pole breakers and tie them together with a handle tie if one pole trips the othere pole with almost all certainty will stay closed backfeeding through the load all the way back to the load terminal of the tripped pole.
Dangerous? It's your call. (2) 1-pole breakers tied together with a handle tie is in no way a subsitute for an application that requires a common trip breaker.
 
templdl said:
A handle tie, listed or not, will not guarantee that both poles will trip should one pole call for a trip. '
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Yes I've been looking for this but can't find it. Dennis, I know you meant something else but 240.20(B)2 is DC.
 
templdl said:
... (2) 1-pole breakers tied together with a handle tie is in no way a subsitute for an application that requires a common trip breaker.
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Very true, however not all applications require a common trip. And for some reason a 2-pole 2-wire (without a neutral) load is one of them.
 
trip

trip

templdl said:
....................Should you take (2) 1-pole breakers and tie them together with a handle tie if one pole trips the othere pole with almost all certainty will stay closed backfeeding through the load all the way back to the load terminal of the tripped pole.
Dangerous? It's your call. (2) 1-pole breakers tied together with a handle tie is in no way a subsitute for an application that requires a common trip breaker.
Click to expand...


not to be argumentative, but my experience has shown me otherwise. Although I definitely support the wisdom of the double-pole breaker, I have seen numerous instances where the handle tie worked well. I can recall some breaker manufacturer reps that would take a paper match and use it as a handle tie and both breakers tripped. Again..may just be my experience has been different from yours.
 
jim dungar said:
Very true, however not all applications require a common trip. And for some reason a 2-pole 2-wire (without a neutral) load is one of them.
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Probably because opening one pole will stop all current flow.
 
LarryFine said:
Probably because opening one pole will stop all current flow.
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Except when the initial fault took out one pole and the remaining arcing fault is still being fed through the closed pole. But, I know this is the same concept as using a 1 pole T-stat on a 240V baseboard.

If the 2-pole breaker is being used as a disconnect device then both poles must open, which is not always guaranteed when using many handle ties.
 
templdl said:
A handle tie, listed or not, will not guarantee that both poles will trip should one pole call for a trip. 'A 2-pole breaker may look like a 2 single pole breakers simply fastened together and a handle tie attached to the toggles but they are totally different. The 2-pole breaker is internally tied together such that if one pole trips it will trip the other pole regardless of the "handle tie." The only thing the handle tie brings to the party is when the breaker is manually operated. The handle tie assures that both poles open manually together.Should you take (2) 1-pole breakers and tie them together with a handle tie if one pole trips the othere pole with almost all certainty will stay closed backfeeding through the load all the way back to the load terminal of the tripped pole.
Dangerous? It's your call. (2) 1-pole breakers tied together with a handle tie is in no way a subsitute for an application that requires a common trip breaker.
Click to expand...


I think you are miss informed on this. Drill out the rivits on many of the two pole breakers and seperate them you will find no intermal connection. Here is a real winner for you. and this is a factory made breaker.
PDRM0003.jpg
 
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