double tapping on 2 pole breakers

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Stevenfyeager

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Location
United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
Home inspection shows double tapping in panel, on (3) 2 pole breakers. Panel is full, I recommended to the realtor that a sub panel needs to be installed. She wrote back saying an electrician told her you can just wire nut pig tail them in the panel. While I have heard that is acceptable for single pole circuits, I told her that since all 3 double taps are on 2 pole breakers, overloading would still be the issue. Did I tell her correctly ?
 
That would depend on the actual loads. For example: Powering both an air-conditioner and a heater from the same breaker would be entirely reasonable because they'll never be consuming power at the same time.
 
It also depends on whether the breaker size is suitable for each load; not too large or small.
 
Given that the circuits were probably wired that way for some time without a problem the pigtail method would likely work. As others have stated you'll need to know the load types and values to know if it can be pigtailed and still be code compliant.
 
Installing a sub panel seems a little extreme, I agree with Rob. Another possible solution might be tandem or quad breakers?
 
Thanks ! There is another issue, she doesn't think the seller will let another person in to look, the sale is not going well, she may lose the sale anyway. The other issue the photo shows two different wire sizes on these breakers (50 amp breakers, at least two of them)
 
Stevenfyeager said:
The other issue the photo shows two different wire sizes on these breakers (50 amp breakers, at least two of them)
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If they have a #8 circuit for an air conditioner condenser, then add a 20 amp welder circuit from the same breaker, that's no bueno.

Tandems/quads need to be your friends, more than likely.

However, quads may not work if the bus does not notches
 
Stevenfyeager said:
Thanks ! There is another issue, she doesn't think the seller will let another person in to look, the sale is not going well, she may lose the sale anyway.
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Sounds like the seller doesn't really want to sell if they are making it difficult to investigate the issue. If I was the one putting the offer in I would question what else the seller is trying to hide.
 
Stevenfyeager said:
Thanks ! There is another issue, she doesn't think the seller will let another person in to look, the sale is not going well, she may lose the sale anyway. The other issue the photo shows two different wire sizes on these breakers (50 amp breakers, at least two of them)
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I believe that Indiana is one of those states that a seller must disclose what they know. Seller now knows. I don't know the legality of not disclosing once you know.

I do know that when South Carolina came out with the seller disclosure law and a family member was selling a house and something was reported on an inspection, that family member wanted to dispute something and hire an engineer and I told him the less he knows the better and not hire an engineer just knock some money off the price.
 
Stevenfyeager said:

Gmail

Gmail is email that’s intuitive, efficient, and useful. 15 GB of storage, less spam, and mobile access.
mail.google.com
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If you take a picture of that picture with your phone, you can post here that way.

Just touch the photo icon, the one I have circled.
It should bring up your gallery to select the pic you want to share.

No pics of you in a tutu tho 😉20220226_132723.jpg
 
Stevenfyeager said:
Home inspection shows double tapping in panel, on (3) 2 pole breakers. Panel is full, I recommended to the realtor that a sub panel needs to be installed. She wrote back saying an electrician told her you can just wire nut pig tail them in the panel. While I have heard that is acceptable for single pole circuits, I told her that since all 3 double taps are on 2 pole breakers, overloading would still be the issue. Did I tell her correctly ?
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As long as the breakers are rated for two wires on the terminal and the breakers are not overloaded there is no issue. If chances are if the breakers were overloaded they would have tripped by now and someone would know this.
 
James L said:
If you take a picture of that picture with your phone, you can post here that way.

Just touch the photo icon, the one I have circled.
It should bring up your gallery to select the pic you want to share.
Click to expand...
Can't you also copy and paste almost any image into the forum response box like I do on the computer?

Touch the image for a second, select 'copy', tap in whatever the box looks like on a phone, select 'paste'.
 
petersonra said:
As long as the breakers are rated for two wires on the terminal and the breakers are not overloaded there is no issue. If chances are if the breakers were overloaded they would have tripped by now and someone would know this.
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If there are mismatched circuit sized paired up, the breaker could be too large for the lesser load.

Like a #14 and a #12 on a 20a breaker (where the #14 is not supplying a motor or HVAC load).
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne said:
While all the above is correct about load calcs, the fundamental answer is no, pigtailing on a 2P breaker is no different than pigtailing on a 1P.
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There is nothing wrong with splicing or pigtailing wires in a panel. Now if we are talking about wires too small for the breaker size splicing would not be an option anyways.
 
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