Dry types on the roof

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sceepe

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Does anyone have any major concerns or bad experiences with mounting dry type transformers up on the roof as opposed to in an electrical room. I am cramped for space inside on an upper floor and need to put a 300KVA somewhere. I'm thinking about getting a Nema 3R enclosure and going up on the roof. I don't normally do this but may not have a choice. Question is, are there additional concerns with roof top mounting? There is easy access to roof due to rooftop HVAC units.

Possible issues - difficulty grounding, increased lightning exposure, mounting difficulties, what else....
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Rust with age. Painting and covering the panel screws with paint. Painting ventilation louvers partially closed. Painting access panels shut. Deterioration in the weather even with a NEMA 3R enclosure.

I have never been fond of placing steel outside unless it is galvanized. Even our padmounted equipment tends to rust. :D
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

I'll second the rust issue big time. The finish on most NEMA 3R is not suitable for the long haul. I think it actually promotes rust ;)

Here you would need struct. calc's by a licensed engineer and approved by our plan check; just like for A/C units.

Watch your secondary conductor length to assure compliance with the tap rules in 240.21. I have seen secondary overcurrent devices needed on the roof next to the XFMR because it was a long way down to the electrical room.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

If the transformer is of the standard ventilated NEMA 3R type, then birds and rodents can easily crawl up inside a nice warm transformer.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Please let me know if this information has been helpful as researchin my archives does take some time.
The Dry type distribution transformer that I had worked for as an application engineer didn't have a specific NEMA 3R design, in other words there was no special design for MEMA 3R.
If it wasn't and encapsulated design the only other choice was ventilated.
The ventilated design had a weathershield kit available that, when properly installed, provided a NEMA 3R rating. It protected the openings against rain but allowed for proper ventilation.
Keep in mind that in order to get a NEMA 3R rating the transformer with this modification had to pass testing which required to pass the NEMA 3R requirements.
However, my notes indicate that we did not recommend this design in a snowy climate as there would be adequate protection against rain but there was concern for wind blown snow entering the enclosure even though it technically met NEMA 3R requirements.
Also, most, if not all, of the manufacturers use an electrostatic powder coating technique which is baked on as a finishing technique. My reference, which is from 1995, shows that the finish was polyester at the time that provided 100% coverage at no less that 1.3mils. Along with the many test was that it must have the capability of meeting a 600 hour salt spray requirement.
Also, as I recall, because if the great advances in the robust nature of these powder coats, there was no difference between the techniques used in either indoor or outdoor gear.
Of course if the finish was to be penetrated such as an abrasion, it would expose the carbon steel which is prone to rust. I believe there was an option available for stainless steel and possibly aluminum. However, as with any manufacturer the cost goes through the roof when specifying a special, off the production line, design.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Keep in mind just how thick 1.3 mils actually is. The standard sheet of bond paper is 4 to 5 mils thick.

When I worked for a transformer manufacturer, we used Corten steel for the transformer tanks. This allowed us to make the sides out of thinner steel since Corten was stronger. This also allowed us to paint the tanks and not be concerned about rusting. If the paint was scratched, it would self heal. Bare Corten is used for some of the facades of building and high mast columns for interstate interchange lighting. :D
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Charlie,
Point well taken. Money can solve a lot of these issues which most aren't willing to pay for or there would be a market for it such as more paint and enclosure material. Basically, when one thinks about it, the core and coil of a dry type transformer could conceptually be left in open air as would a panel board or load center except that the enclosure provides protection.
My knowledge of the reference to tanks was for liquid cooled units which would relate to padmount, powercenter, unit substation and substation transformers.
The paint spec that I have for a pad mounted transformer manufacture states that it is to be thoroughly cleaned and phosphatized the same as dry type distribution transformers and still powder coated with a finish not less than 1.5 mils thick.
However, liquid cooled transformers other that padmounts are prepared the same way but use a backed on paint process with a total of 3-5 mils average thickness which isn't an apples to apples comparison to the lowly dry type distribution transformer.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Originally posted by jerryb:
If the transformer is of the standard ventilated NEMA 3R type, then birds and rodents can easily crawl up inside a nice warm transformer.
You can believe it! Once had one in a building, had to install screens over all the openings. Filled up with bird nests. :(

[ December 23, 2004, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: electricman2 ]
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Originally posted by sandsnow:
I'll second the rust issue big time. The finish on most NEMA 3R is not suitable for the long haul. I think it actually promotes rust ;)
Sadly that seems to be true. :roll:

Can you get a transformer in NEMA 4X? (Stainless Steel)
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

iwire,
As I tell people it may not be easy to push the issue but if you have the money you can get what you want. You could probably get the manufacturer to either order a limited quantity of SS to fabricate a special enclosure or they could get an outside fabricator to do so. Because of the special that it is the cost would be high.
Sometime core/coil assemblies are available which could be sent to a fabricator who would build one for you.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

How will you get a 300 kVA to the roof?

Will you have secondary overcurrrent protection close enough to the transformer output? (see 240.4 and 240.21)

Is it practical to trapeze mount the transformer high in the room? Or maybe wall mount several 75 kVA transformers?

You might consider a cast coil unit. The coils are impervious to most environmental situations. But protection from snow, rodents, corrosion is still req'd.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

IMO If the equipment is rated 3R by the manf.,then tests have been conducted for use in that location. Would you also custom build the disconnect from s.s.? I think not. JMO
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

This is no worse than putting it out in a parking lot and I have seen a fair number of such installations outside. If you have to stick it there I'd be inclined to just do it.

You might want to consider a second option though. You could a stanard transformer and whatever other gear you might need inside a prefab building (or maybe a shipping container) and set the whole thing on the roof. no worry about snow or rain, or critters, and if it ever needs service in the middle of winter the guys trying to work on it will appreciate you.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

benaround,
I agree that s.s. doesn't make sense but it an answer for those who are concerned about rust and obviously distrust the MEMA 3R rating. Then, they would have to justify the extra cost for S.S to their customer?
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Look at Square D #300T3HNX for a totally enclosed unit, and if you like, order it in 316 stainless! Where I'm at, there's no snow, and have seen just plain transformers on the roof with bird screens and weather shields and have not seen problems as long as they are left on.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

O.K. ,how about this.Seems like the only complaint is rust,put in different words it has a real bad paint job.Give it a real good paint job!! They are simple to take apart,sand it down,spray about 10 coats of primer,5-6 coats of paint,couple coats of clear sealer,if you still have time give it a good wax job! Don't forget the animal screens. It will still be on the roof long after the customer has moved on.
 
Re: Dry types on the roof

Instead of primer, use a quart of cold galvanizing paint. This stuff has solid zinc flakes in it to fight the rust. More expensive than normal paint (got a quart from Grainger for $30) but it will last forever and makes a good primer for paint.
 
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