Dryer plug

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OK from what I have found the 3rd wire would be the neutral... because older homes rarely had grounding ... in comes the 4 prong plug, 2 hots, neutral and ground. Does it always work this way with the 3 prong???
 
Old house, get the three pronged pigtail and connect the neutral to the dryer chassis. Newer house (4-wire) use the 4 prong pigtail and seperate the ground and neutral wire as necessary.
 
At one time you were permitted to use the grounded conductor on a dryer for feeder for equipment grounding. We used to see a lot of SEU cable used for this. In a replacement situation you are still permitted to use the 3 wire feeder with a 3 wire cord and plug. Any new installation would require a 4 wire cord and plug and separate neutral and a separate EGC.
 
Also, if this 3-wire branch circuit is run with SE cable and does not originate at the service equipment, then it cannot be re-used. You need to find the source of the BC and the wiring method before you know if you can use it.

Mark
 
puckman said:
Why Can You Ground The Neutral For A Dryer But Can,t For Most Any Other Installion ? Just A Though
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You can only use EXISTING 3 wire installations that were code compliant at the time they were originally installed. New construction requires a four conductor feed (seperate grounding conductor and grounded conductor (neutral).
Why? Because the code sez so.
steve
 
paul said:
Old house, get the three pronged pigtail and connect the neutral to the dryer chassis. Newer house (4-wire) use the 4 prong pigtail and seperate the ground and neutral wire as necessary.
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On an old style set up the dryer or range receptacle had 2 hots and a bare ground.It was not an insulated grounded conductor but a bare grounding conductor.The connection at the dryer/range was done so that the grounding and the grounded conductor were as one at the unit.When a 4 wire set up came to be this changed.But I believe that if you replace a dryer or a range in an older 3 wire set up,the unit can still have a 3 wire plug.
 
The third wire is definitely a grounded conductor. It carries the 120-volt portion of the load for a dryer or range. It is my understanding that this practice (commonly called neutral grounding) was begun during WWII in an effort to save wire. It took almost 50-years to get it changed. Any new installation requires a 4-wire receptacle and cord with a seperate grounding conductor. Existing installations may continue to use the existing 3-wire, with two hots and a grounded conductor. The frame of the appliance will be bonded to the grounded conductor thus giving you the "neutral ground".
 
allenwayne said:
It was not an insulated grounded conductor but a bare grounding conductor.
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If this originates at the service equipment aren't they the same thing?
 
infinity said:
If this originates at the service equipment aren't they the same thing?
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Yes, but, i occasionally see a remodel where the sevice has been relocated. What once was a main breaker panel, is now a remote panel. Wouldn't you know, the neuts & grnds are not isolated & the bare ground wire to the range & dryer needs to be insulated at that point.
 
Lets get this straight.What we had was 2 hots and a neutral and not a ground.The frames were bonded to the neutral.This dates back to ww2.Since no hazards were seen it was permited to remain for many years.We used se cable.
 
I think there is some confusion between se cable used for services and se cable used for dryers and ranges. The se cable used for services is used as a grounded conductor. The se cable used for dryer and ranges is an equipment ground. This was allowed to carry the neutral from the light bulb,but only with se cable.
Rick
 
RUWired said:
I think there is some confusion between se cable used for services and se cable used for dryers and ranges. The se cable used for services is used as a grounded conductor. The se cable used for dryer and ranges is an equipment ground. This was allowed to carry the neutral from the light bulb,but only with se cable.
Rick
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Wrong,it is still used as a grounded conductor.There is no ground wire for 3 prong dryers or ranges.You can never use a ground wire as a conductor.
 
RUWired said:
The se cable used for dryer and ranges is an equipment ground. This was allowed to carry the neutral from the light bulb,but only with se cable.
Rick
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Rick, not that it makes a ton of difference the code never allowed using an equipment ground for a neutral.

The code allowed using a neutral to ground the frame of a stove or dryer.

You can see this wording in 250.142(B) Exception 1.
 
It is also clear that it is a grounded conductor from looking at the receptacles that were used. There are two types of NEMA 3-wire 250 volt receptacles. One is two hots and a ground. The other is two hots and a neutral. The old dryer receptacles are the two hots and a neutral type. The two hots and a ground are still quite legal for use where no 120V load is used.

Mark
 
O.K,So I am the one that was confused.I also looked in my older hand book and found the commentary stating that it was ok to use the neutral to ground the frames.Hard to believe the nec would'nt have said that is was ok to use the ground as a neutral for the small lamp.
Rick
 
RUWired said:
O.K,So I am the one that was confused.I also looked in my older hand book and found the commentary stating that it was ok to use the neutral to ground the frames.Hard to believe the nec would'nt have said that is was ok to use the ground as a neutral for the small lamp.
Rick
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It never is safe to use a ground as a return or neutral for anything and i wish people would wake up to neutral and ground are not the same.Them old dryers and ranges had a NEUTRAL and never or ever had a ground.
This is a weakness with many electricians including me for first few years. There is a big differance and perhaps we can get this straight for the unknowing here and now.And Mike has help available for the ones that cant understand.
 
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