dryer recept cover allowing water

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-marty

Senior Member
Location
Alaska
I work for a gc who buys modular homes from Cananda and sets them up on foundations.

Home inspector is concerned about the dryer recept.

The recept and the 4-11/16 flat cover are one piece. As with other 4-11/16 covers there are extra screw holes that are not used. The assembly is ul listed.

The concern is that the unused screw holes will allow water into the box.

Has anyone else used and had problems with this type cover?

Thanks
 
Is this in a wet location? If not than why is there any concern about water in the receptacle?
 
WTF?
WHO has the concern for water getting into the box from the dryer plug screw holes? Not any Inspector.
What about water getting into the actual receptacle slots?
Wouldnt water getting on the floor or wall be as much of a concern?
Is this same guy concerned about the toilet overflowing? or the roof leaking?
 
-marty said:
Home inspector is concerned about the dryer recept.
Click to expand...
I think that pretty much sums it up.

What are the inspectors credentials?
More importantly, what authority does he have?

NOTE:Quote has been bolded by me.
 
Marty,

I would not be too overly concerned about this unless in the actual Inspectors report he/she also noted moisture in the area, dampness, mold or other effects that would tend to put a total puzzle together.

As a instructor for the HI industry on Electrical Training it usualy is just a matter of being over concerned or sometimes under educated but remember in most cases the HI is more concerned over safety issues than anything else because that's their job to worry for you....their client.

Usually they will defer to an " Electrician " who can evaluate it more closly and thus reduce the liability of the HI...normal for the industry.

As I believe infinity stated...if it is not a wet location ( as we know dry locations can be wet locations on temp conditions ) I would not be overly concerned.
 
radiopet said:
As a instructor for the HI industry on Electrical Training it usualy is just a matter of being over concerned or sometimes under educated but remember in most cases the HI is more concerned over safety issues than anything else because that's their job to worry for you....their client.
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Is this what you teach these guys?

radiopet said:
Usually they will defer to an " Electrician " who can evaluate it more closly and thus reduce the liability of the HI...normal for the industry.
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If your going to defer to the EC's why even do an elelctrical inspection? Just defer it all to us!
I love the ad in the back of Popular Science.."YOU can earn up to $56,000 as a home inspector"
 
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lol....firstly....those that get teaching are the ones that " COME" to the teaching events.....only a small percentage DOES......

Many states don't have any requirements for HI's just as MANY including VA never had any cont. education requirements for Electricians...and grandfathered MANY into the industry.

HI's are not code officials.......they have a higher liability rate if they step over that boundary.

You need to understand the SOP of home inspectors....the inspection of electrical issues are NOT exhaustive...they look for defects and such that are obvious that the home owner or buyer may not know about....never intended to be an Exhaustive Electrical Inspection.

You have to understand the purpose of a Home Inspector.....none I know ever claim to be electrical experts......they are electrical generalists along with other things....this is why if something is not meeting the standards they are trained for...they defer...

Which as an Electrician....I prefer them to DEFER......

They are the eyes for the electrician who is going to fix issues, HI's can only go so far.......before other legal issues can arrise in their liability
 
77401 said:
Is this what you teach these guys?

I love the ad in the back of Popular Science.."YOU can earn up to $56,000 as a home inspector"
Click to expand...

Hey...lets not do BASHING here........I know many HI's who are Electricians...and have a great deal of knowledge......

How much does the normal Electrician know about roofing, foundations, structural issues, crack terminology, plumbing issues and so on...they are generalists......

I am not sure why Electricians dont simply LOVE home inspectors.....I get alot of business from the local HI's...........personally I love it.

Oh.....BTW...I know some HI's who are awesome and make well over $ 250,000 a year doing inspections......

OH...I forgot...lol.....I see all the time in those ad's on TV....learn at home to be an Electrician....I snicker at those also...no difference as their are some states you dont even have to carry a electricians license to wire dwellings......each industry has it's own issues.
 
Ok no Bashing...intended.
But I keep hearing about HI worrying about Liability.
I don't get the worry?
All you are doing is giving an opinion on the condition of a residence. WHere does the liability concern come from?
I don't see EC's concerned about Liability near as much as y'all.

The HI here do "claim to be electrical experts" not "generalists"

The good thing, for me, is when they tell my customers how Federal Pcific panels have been "recalled".
 
77401,

The liability for HI's is high because they are assumed "Generalists" and "Electricians" are considered "Specialists"

Ok.....it is about time someone actually explained this because It is important to understand.

The HI is going to give opinions and observations that could be an easy OUT for the consumer which I have seen legal cases bought against the HI simply because he pointed out things...the owners did not buy so the sellers sued the HI for the loss of the sale....thats one example.

The HI also makes accessments of issues but in the legal world if an inspector says the kitchen floor is fine....and actually check it with a moisture meter and it appears fine...6 months later ( in many states 2 years later ) something leaks.....they can sue the HI for missing it...even if it did not exist....yep it happens.

If an HI did an inspection and their were no GFCI's on the counter top of the kitchen....and lets say it dates back before the requirement went into effect.....so technically it does not have to be updated...BUT lets say someone gets electrocuted from it...and the HI did not report it or suggest it as a safety upgrade...guess who is getting sued.....the HI..happens all the time.

How many Electricians do you know that have E & O insurance.....I dont...as a EC I have General Liability and Workers Comp for my guys.....HI's have to have GL as well in many states they MUST carry E & O insurance due to lawsuits...over things the HI could not have seen anyway.

If the HI's in your area claim to be " Electrical Experts" are you assuming that or is that on their business model..or rumors you have heard....if an HI claims to be an electrical expert....they better be a Master Electrician also....

Yes, Electricians have liability issues.....so do HI's and the HI since they cover a wider range of issues....roofs for example.......a roof that is DRY on a day of an inspection...could LEAK on a rain day AFTER the inspection is done and the house is bought...say a $ 500,000 house....NOW......1 month later it leaks....was an HI supposed to see that......if they did they would note it...but chances are they said it was worn or near end of its life...BUT if it leaks.......guess who potentially gets SUED...the HI.....

Is it fair...nope....does it happen...YES.....mainly on the WEST coast but it is moving FAST towards the east...

HI's are an easy target....but personally I like HI's alot......they refer business to me and my company and since the chances of a real estate agent or a seller or buyer getting a REAL electrician to look at things...they should be atleast thankful SOMEONE is looking for issues...thats where the HI comes in...

Some are better than others...much like Electricians as well.......all part of the game.
 
77401 said:
The good thing, for me, is when they tell my customers how Federal Pcific panels have been "recalled".
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They had a class action suit against them and other issues but never an actual recall....atleast I dont believe so but again I could be wrong.

Personally , good HI's explain to them the 'Electrician" will need to make this call...I have seen plenty of FPE's and Zinsco's that look fine inside and show no issues of problems...now we know the FPE has issues of not tripping and the zinsco has buss bar issues...to which my suggestion to them would be to think about replacing the breakers on the FPE with the current replacement models available on the market which have passed testing procedures.
 
radiopet said:
They had a class action suit against them and other issues but never an actual recall....atleast I dont believe so but again I could be wrong.

...now we know the FPE has issues of not tripping and the zinsco has buss bar issues...to which my suggestion to them would be to think about replacing the breakers on the FPE with the current replacement models available on the market which have passed testing procedures.
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FPE's problem...along with the non-tripping issue ...is ALSO the bus...and the fact that they lied to maintain their UL listing/labeling - resulting in the class action lawsuit.

I would not suggest the use of FPE replacement CB's into a faulty FPE bus...that only "solves" 1/2 the problem.

Here is a great article (it's in .pdf format, you'll need the adobe reader...free @ www.adobe.com):
[ FPE or not FPE?]
 
Celtic,

I think the largest issue that is run into is that the "Consumer" knows the risks and they simply ignore the risks.....so the concept of atleast having them replace the breakers of a FPE gets rid of the first issue of non-tripping which is to me more of a concern. It is kinda a lessor of TWO evils....atleast they MAY do something...but more often they may replace breakers.....BUT if it needs a new panel they may BALK at it...something is better than nothing in regards to many PFE panels.

While in my opinion it really depends on the condition of the panel and overservations made on each one on an individual basis.....the HI can only comment on the "generalist" things......

If they say...it should be all replaced and the Electrician comes along and says its fine......then the HI looks bad for simply coveying safety concerns...and the electrician says..."Dumb HI" and thats how all the trouble starts....The HI has to walk a fine line.....

Lets face it........the average home inspection is between $ 195.00 and $ 325.00......and they give a general overview and summary......atleast it is something....because we KNOW they are not going to call in a Plumber, Electrician, HVAC and Foundation person in....so to them the HI is a bargain.....so they have to be UP on all basic safety concepts and terms....where as we as electricians can go beyond that....and be specialists....but we need HI's to make things known so we can fix them.
 
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Radio
Very well explained, thanks.
I now average one HI repair list per week. So I'm not complaining just making conversation.

But I have to tell the story of my first house I bought in '91.
Small 1200 ft/2, 2 bedroom, 1 bath, 1 car garage, window A/C's, wood floors, cement slab. Both realtors advised me to get a HI, I didn't want to spend the money as it was already an expensive house & my personal experience told me the house was solid. So anyway I hired a HI and while he was doing his report I noticed him searching for something. I asked him what he was looking for? he answered for the access to the crawl space under the house. I told him it was a slab, he said no, it had hard woods & a crawl space. Both of the realtors & I know these houses, & we all just rolled our eyes & sat down while he looked for the access. After a while I had to tell him to fagataboutit.

I know its wrong to judge a whole trade on one guy, but I have a file drawer full of simular reports that get faxed to weekly. I swear some of these guys have never owned a screwdriver or hammer & now are HI's.

When I purchesed my 3 other houses I never hired a HI. But my experience allows me to do my own due diligence. I might be the exception.
For the common HO, they should stil hire a HI but how can one check references or verify the qualifications, education or backgrounds of a HI?
 
77401 said:
I know its wrong to judge a whole trade on one guy, but I have a file drawer full of simular reports that get faxed to weekly. I swear some of these guys have never owned a screwdriver or hammer & now are HI's.

When I purchesed my 3 other houses I never hired a HI. But my experience allows me to do my own due diligence. I might be the exception.
For the common HO, they should stil hire a HI but how can one check references or verify the qualifications, education or backgrounds of a HI?
Click to expand...

I hear ya 77401...truly I do hear ya...that is why we are trying to educate them more and many are learning and becoming a GREAT asset to our industry and in my last seminar I had 25 guys.....by the end of the class they were doing very well......

It is the same for any industry really....hell in some areas like I said Electricians did not have to even carry a license and in many states they grandfathered people to Master Electricians if they only had to show they did some electrical work for someone in the last 10 years....no trade is perfect and their are bad eggs in all trades...

As for the crawl issues.....guess you just say he gave it a good effort...things happen and we hope they learn....you taught the guy something and nextime he probably wont make that mistake...

The good thing about HI's when it comes to electrical is.....they are learning more and more these days and thats why many electricians like myself give alot of time to training them...but you are right some are better than others...but again same in any trade.

I know (3) master electricians who I would not have wire my storage shed much less wire a real house...but they are doing it.....I know builders who do their own electrical because they were grandfathered in...and if you ask them what a switch leg is...they say....I don't know......shocking but true...
 
radiopet said:
Celtic,

I think the largest issue that is run into is that the "Consumer" knows the risks and they simply ignore the risks.....so the concept of atleast having them replace the breakers of a FPE gets rid of the first issue of non-tripping which is to me more of a concern. It is kinda a lessor of TWO evils....atleast they MAY do something...but more often they may replace breakers.....BUT if it needs a new panel they may BALK at it...something is better than nothing in regards to many PFE panels.
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I cannnot agree with that.

Last year, BEFORE the class action wound down on April 20, I was contaced by a HO to swap out a panel. The panel was a FPE. The HO had NO idea of the problems associated with FPE - even though he owned the property from the day it was built. He had a small legal "advertisement" in a local paper announcing the action and that is how he found out he "might" have an issue with FPE. (I can email a copy to anyone interested)

After reading about the action, I did some reasearch (on the web). I discovered things I didn't know about FPE - and I am "supposed" to be the knowledgable one! To say "the "Consumer" knows the risks..." is assumption. While it may be true that many HO's are aware of the FPE CB issue, how many are aware of the bus issue - or the UL issue - or the class action?

I printed out that .pdf (I linked to here), and gave it to the HO, I opened up his panel to show him - and myself - what type bus it contained. I then left him to READ the information BEFORE deciding if he wanted the costly job done or not. He decided NOT to "simply ignore the risks"...as did about 40 other owners in that condo development, apparantly that pdf was ciculated throughout the development.

How does one equate the "lesser ot two evils" when either one could result in the loss of life, limb, or property?

It is pertinent to note - NOT all FPE panels, CB's, bus, and equipment falls into the catergory of "evil". To assume every FPE panel in existance in homes today is "evil", is just as erroneous as assuming "something is better than nothing".

In my own home, I have a FPE 50A main...and it works just fine - as I found out last week when it was 100? +/- outside.
...but have no fear, the 50A FPE will be history very shortly.
 
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