Drywall screws to mount electrical panels

[mdshunk]

Yes, they are made by Arlington and they work rather nice....

Who ripped off Mr. Smart Box's idea, who made them years before Arlington did.

 

[ryan_618]

I'm going to stop mounting structures to other structures with drywall screws until I get more info on this.

Exactly.

 

[JohnConnolly]

Why would you buy/stock/pay extra for a box like that? We just pull out the nails and supply our own 1" drywall....err, box screws.

As far as drywall screws? I tell the inspectors to go away and leave me alone. I have been screwing things up for 30 plus years.

 

[roger]

I have been screwing things up for 30 plus years.

And so have I. :wink: :grin:

Roger

 

[LarryFine]

Do I get a red tag if I use bugle head drywall screws to fasten a 4" square box to wood?

I hope not, otherwise I'm gonna end up with a pile of plastic anchors without matching screws. :wink:

. . . I use hex heads number 10 screws . . .

I personally don't care for hex screws in any enclosure that contains conductors, because they can tear through the insulation too easily.

Heck, I have even used "romex staples" to fasten bracket boxes to studs . . .

Well, I do use NM staples for recessed lights and plastic boxes-on-bars, both of which have pairs of holes spaced just right for them.

Aren't those new plastic boxes that come with screws inside them using drywall screws?

The real question is whether all bugle-head screws are drywall screws.

I have been screwing things up for 30 plus years.

You said it, I didn't! :grin:

 

[George Stolz]

You guys are ruthless.

David, I gently concur with the majority. If you can find a listing for a screw that states "for drywall only" you will have something. I'm not going to bother helping you look, I feel the same way about the idea as the others.

Even if you found it, then you'd have to prove which brand of screw the installer used.

I know a guy who used to carry a bucket of a brand of staples he hated, and used the staples he liked out of his pouch. When the ambitious inspector came calling, looking for a 110.3(B) violation regarding the number of cables a staple was listed to carry, he'd find the right bucket.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[stickboy1375]

Hey George, You got those listed screws so we can install these panels? No, but the sheetrocker left these on the ground... no we can't use those, we will have to come back tomorrow, after we stop at the supply house and get listed screws... :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

[electricmanscott]

Right from the first post to here, skipped evrything in between. Far too bizarre.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I personally don't care for hex screws in any enclosure that contains conductors, because they can tear through the insulation too easily.

Larry you have to use Finesse

 

[roger]

Right from the first post to here, skipped evrything in between. Far too bizarre.

How do you know? :wink:

Roger

 

[dnem]

post #5
David I noticed you have now restricted this subject to just the mounting of 'panels'.

This is different from your original statement found here #35

If it were listed as drywall screws only are you saying that we could not use them to fasten our boxes.

That's what I'm saying. . Drywall screws can not be used to fasten electrical equipment.

So now can I ask you a question?

Do I get a red tag if I use bugle head drywall screws to fasten a 4" square box to wood?

I hate it when it turns out that the screw up was mine !

I originally said ?electrical equipment? which screwed up the whole direction of the conversation. . I should have said surface mounted panel from the very beginning.

post #12
I mostly use drywall screws for box bonding now that we can't use sheet metal screws anymore. I would never dream of mounting a panel with drywall screws, however. That's absurd.

Unfortunately some people not only dream about mounting surface panels with drywall screws, they do it.

post #13
It all depends on your point of view. Let me be clear, I use hex heads number 10 screws but my panels are usually residential and mounted between the stud. I see no reason the sheetrock screws won't hold this type of panel in this situation. I cannot imagine using them to mount a surface panel to a masonry wall.

Heck some panels need lag bolts while others can be done with plastic anchors. It is all relative--- that's what Einstein said.

But other people do imagine using drywall screws to mount a surface panel to the wall and I see it afterwards. . Last time I saw a surface mounted panel hung with drywall wall screws, the guy used 3 screws, one centered in the top, 2 across the bottom. . I called him and asked him if he had only bought 3 screws and he said, ?The panel seemed fine to me?.

?Seemed fine to me? might not be sufficient to satisfy the listing weight limit of the screw. . I?m trying to definitively answer that question.

I still haven?t got my hands on either an ASTM standard or the UL listing for drywall screws. . Our plan review guy turned up a product evaluation for some kind of web system that refers to the drywall screw standard and says it includes a ?withdrawal resistance safety factor of 5? which would mean that if the screw breaks at 25 pounds during testing then it can only be used to mount 5 pounds of dead weight. . But without the UL listing everything else is just academic speculation.

Do I get a red tag if I use bugle head drywall screws to fasten a 4" square box to wood?

I?m not writing up any drywall screw violations until I get more info. . If I can?t access the UL listing, then I?m going to ignore the issue. . If UL doesn?t make its listings available to AHJs then the listings are not going to be enforced.

Our plan review man said the package of ASTM standards would cost us $8500. . That?s not going to happen. . They make their standards irrelevant if they?re not accessible.

 

[dnem]

You guys are ruthless.

David, I gently concur with the majority. If you can find a listing for a screw that states "for drywall only" you will have something. I'm not going to bother helping you look, I feel the same way about the idea as the others.

George, you need to reread the thread. . You're missing the whole point.

There hasn't been even one person here that has stated or even wondered if there is a "drywall only" listing. . The thread is about weight and application (as in, an application that subjects the screw to blunt shock sheer forces) restrictions. . Any restrictions then might or might not apply to certain electrical installations.

 

[jwelectric]

314.27 Outlet Boxes.
(A) Boxes at Luminaire (Lighting Fixture) Outlets. Boxes used at luminaire (lighting fixture) or lampholder outlets shall be designed for the purpose. At every outlet used exclusively for lighting, the box shall be designed or installed so that a luminaire (lighting fixture) may be attached.

Exception: A wall-mounted luminaire (fixture) weighing not more than 3 kg (6 lb) shall be permitted to be supported on other boxes or plaster rings that are secured to other boxes, provided the luminaire (fixture) or its supporting yoke is secured to the box with no fewer than two No. 6 or larger screws.

I use sheet rock screws all day long when mounting bracket lights beside doors and wall sconces. I use them to mount boxes and straps along with various other uses.

I use sheet rock screws to hang pictures, plaques, and window trim as well a electrical panels.

Many years ago I even used sheet rock screws to install a radiator in an old Nash Rambler. I traded that old Nash for a Studebaker that had the exhaust tied up with coat hangers.

 

[John Hawkinson]

OK, dnem, I have ASTM C943-04 and C1002-04.

These standards specify a bunch of stuff including physical properties, like dimensions, depth of coating, hardness, etc. We'll skip that stuff.
Section 10 of 954 is the Test Method.

10.5 Procedure for Performance Tests:
10.5.1 Using the screw specimen, attach gypsum board or
metal lath to center of a flange of a steel stud which has been
securely and rigidly supported.
10.5.1.1 Grasp the metal lath with locking pliers and pull
steadily in a plane parallel to the plane of the lath. Observe
whether the lath tears before it slips out from under the screw
head.
10.5.1.2 With the drill propelling the screw at 2500 r/min
maximum (free spindle speed), exert a total pressure of 30 lbf
(135.5 N) (dead weight plus applied force).
10.6 Precision and Bias?No statement is made regarding
the precision and bias of this test method, since the result of the
test method is reported in nonnumerical terms.

Now wasn't that worth 8 grand?

Apparently this is test is, per section 6 ("Performance Requirements"), basically about whether the "screw threads shall be adequate to pull the head of the screw below the surface of the gypsum panel through four layers of kraft paper placed over the gypsum panel products..." (and similar text for lath) and that's probably not what you're looking for.

C1002 is similar, though with more tests.

In short, these are concerned with spin-out.

Sorry.

 

[George Stolz]

John - we've waited a year for your first post, and it was a good one.

Thanks for the info.

 

[dnem]

Thank You very much, John !!
That's one more source for an answer that I can mark off the list.
Your check for the $8500 is "in the mail".

I don't know what else to say except what I said earlier:

I?m not writing up any drywall screw violations until I get more info. . If I can?t access the UL listing, then I?m going to ignore the issue. . If UL doesn?t make its listings available to AHJs then the listings are not going to be enforced.

David

 

[roger]

Our plan review man said the package of ASTM standards would cost us $8500. . That?s not going to happen. . They make their standards irrelevant if they?re not accessible.

David, that sure explains why they aren't on the best sellers list. :smile:

Here is a picture of the smart box with the sheet rock screws originally posted by Mdshunk in another thread.

Roger

 

[electricmanscott]

John - we've waited a year for your first post, and it was a good one.

Thanks for the info.

Oddly enough I see John is from The Peoples Republic of Cambridge. You would expect a guy from that city to come right out and propose banning the use of drywall screws for anything other than drywall. There is a proposal on the table right now to ban out of town dogs from the city. The kicker is the city is a designated "Sanctuary city" that welcomes illegal immigrants. Kooky place that Cambridge.


Back to the topic at hand. I can't really deal with this nonsense but did I see somewhere in there that one of you guys is an inspector that may not allow drywall screws for mounting equipment?

There must be more imporatant things that actually are relevant to deal with.

 

[Terrynistler]

I just use Big lag bolts 4" or maybe even 6" if I have any in my bucket. Haven't had a panel fall off yet. Heck had one house get hit by a tornado and the only thing left was the panel with its six lag bolts. Blew the rest of the house right away. But then again I always take out those wimpy nails the boxes come with and use 8pennys and my framing nailer and just give it a couple 4 or 5 threw the side of the box never had one go anywhere yet

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I just use Big lag bolts 4" or maybe even 6" if I have any in my bucket. Haven't had a panel fall off yet. Heck had one house get hit by a tornado and the only thing left was the panel with its six lag bolts. Blew the rest of the house right away. But then again I always take out those wimpy nails the boxes come with and use 8pennys and my framing nailer and just give it a couple 4 or 5 threw the side of the box never had one go anywhere yet

Do you use hurricane clips also???