DSL problem and solution

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mdshunk

Senior Member
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Had a weird DSL problem today, that I managed to solve. I thought I'd pass along the story, since more and more regular electricians are working on this stuff.

Tenant in a commercial building was moving from one office to another in the same complex. Just three lines. Two voice, and one DSL which they also used for their fax and credit card machine. In the phone room, I found their old station cables, the accompanying cross connects wires, and pulled the cross connects. Their new space has a 6-pair going to it. I punched down their three cross-connects to the first three pairs of the 6-pair going to their new space.

Their new space actually has a NID installed in it (weird, eh?). I hooked the appropriate station cables in their new space to the first three pairs of that 6-pair on the NID, called the ANI at each jack to confirm proper operation, and went on to the next job.

Not two hours later, they call (frantic), saying the DSL doesn't work. I came right back, discovered dial tone on the DSL line, but the DSL modem had neither the DSL light or the Internet light lit. What could it be? I was really racking my brain. The only thing I thought it could possibly be was the carbon arrestor in the NID that was in their space. I pulled that pair off the carbon arrestor, and connected it with UR connectors directly to the station cables, completely bypassing the NID and the accompanying carbon arrestor.

I'm not sure what was wrong with this carbon arrestor (maybe nothing?) that it would pass clear dial tone but mess up DSL, but that did the trick. Just passing this along in case this happens to someone else. I'd still like to know why bypassing the carbon arrestor let the DSL connect.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
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May I ask what an NID is so this makes some sense to me and others who might have no clue what you're talking about?

NewNID.gif
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Had a weird DSL problem today, that I managed to solve. I thought I'd pass along the story, since more and more regular electricians are working on this stuff.

I could not help but chuckle when I read that, that makes you an irregular electrician.:D
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
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I could not help but chuckle when I read that, that makes you an irregular electrician.:D
Yes, I'll absolutely go along with that. :D No, I'm just a regular electrician passing along information to other regular electricians. The real phone guys probably already know what I did wrong.
 
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mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
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So NID is the demarcation point?
Normally, which is why I was surprised to see it used instead of a punchdown block in a suite in an office building. If I was to guess, I'd guess that when it was installed originally, the phone guy dispatched was an "outside guy", and that was what was on his truck. The phone room already had a couple really nice 50 pair Cook blocks, so the arrestors were redundant.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Now if you had just said "demarc" all of that would have made perfect sense to me. ;)


NID stands for Network Interface Device. It is also sometimes called a MPOE, Minimum Point of Entry. All of the phone jacks in your house end up at the NID. The NID box is usually located outside of your house on the side but is sometimes in a closet (usually for businesses) or in a basement. The NID hands off the phone service to the phone lines outside of your house.

opennid.jpg
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
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The demarc is a place. The NID is a piece of hardware, most often used at the demarc. I was surprised to find it used with inside cabling. Go Sprint!
 

tom baker

First Chief Moderator
Staff member
The carbons can create a slightly conductive path to ground. OK on analog, but not so with digital. Carbons are intended for lightning protection, and are not used any more as they can fail. I have about 30 remote sites with carbons, replaced all the carbons with gas tubes...they go into same protector.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
The carbons can create a slightly conductive path to ground. OK on analog, but not so with digital. Carbons are intended for lightning protection, and are not used any more as they can fail. I have about 30 remote sites with carbons, replaced all the carbons with gas tubes...they go into same protector.
There's my answer. Thanks Tom!
 

FlyFish

Member
Location
Connecticut
I had a similar type of trouble where the DSL kept dropping off. I tried new filters, new modems and finally found the trouble to be in the NID. I found the spare screws (red and green) not tight. Although the screws that had the inside wires were tight the spare screws being loose created a bad connection. Both sets of screws need to be tight even without wires on them. Continuity is from one screw to the other with a little copper strap.
 

smo

Member
Some of those NID's have built in DSL filters in them, allowing the inbound line to be split into "voice" and "data" pairs, so you don't have to filter each voice jack on the premises. Is it possible the one you worked on had a built in DSL filter?

(BTW - sometimes the filter is located in the "tamper resistant" side of the NID, which you need a "security hex" wrench to open.
 

mdshunk

Senior Member
Location
Right here.
Some of those NID's have built in DSL filters in them, allowing the inbound line to be split into "voice" and "data" pairs, so you don't have to filter each voice jack on the premises. Is it possible the one you worked on had a built in DSL filter?

(BTW - sometimes the filter is located in the "tamper resistant" side of the NID, which you need a "security hex" wrench to open.

no... I actually checked that on the orininal MAC work.
 
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