Dumb question but I'm serious

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Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Thanks Pierre, I agree. The 600sq. ft remodel took about 2 years to complete which tells me something. I would consider my skill level better than competent as i was in the elec trade for 21 yrs. & an inspector for 6 . Un fortunately, I now can't help people In the way I sometimes want to for liability reasons. As I've read in here, many of you have had run-ins with DIY'rs & it can be challenging to say the least. :D
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

I think that rcarroll encountered a 120 volt receptacle that was somehow wired for 240 volts.


I have seen as instance of a 240 volts 3-prong electric stove receptacle wired for 240 volts corner ground 3-phase. Either the electrician was too ignorant to know that you can get a similar 4-prong receptacle that IS 240 volts 3-phase, was too lazy to go buy one, or the owner was too cheap to buy one.

I have seen enough misapplied stuff that whenever I go to work on ANYTHING, I expect there to be at least 3 things worng with it. If there is only 1 thing wrong with it I figure that I got lucky.

One time I put up a $2,000 explosionproof fluorescent light fixture and had to take it back down the next day to rewire 2 of the 4 rapid start sockets. Somebody got the yellow wires mixed up with the result that 2 of the yellow socket had no filament power. Somebody asked me if the flashing lights were for a disco!
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Originally posted by rcarroll:
Well I had to ask, cuz 3 years ago I did a final insp. on a small addition. The work was a DIY'R. I did not do the rough inspections so I have no idea on the wiring. My tester showed all receps ok. Now there are problems & new H/O hired an ec who said there is 240v to receps. Sounds possibly like a mistie in box or lost neut on a multi-wire ckt. Anyway, I have to confirm the problem & go from there. Again, I thank you all for your help. Ron
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Sounds like the DIY`R tied all neutrals in 2 circuits together somewhere and one came loose.I`ve learned through embaressment :eek:
Don`t rely on a plug tester 100 % especially on an arc fault circuit.For one there is the yellow one, don`t have the tester in hand that will show hot ground reversed when in actuallity it is an open neutral.Also a standard plug tester,gfci included will not show a neutral to ground fault in an afci circuit.At the price of afci testers the average guy that works out in the field can`t afford them .But a cheap alternative is a small night light to test for neutral to ground faults that is the cause of most call backs when someone moves in a new home that is hot checked with a plug tester and suddenly the breaker trips when they plug anything in,but when hot checked all looked ok ;)
Our service guys were overwhelmed with these call backs.Keeping them from thier primary job adds and extras.So we struggled for awhile trying different things and now we have 5
area managers,4 residential service crew`s,3 rough walk guys,4 hot check guys,20 rough crews,15 trim crews.And as far as can be seen this has worked out for us the best.This is in residential we also have a 20 man commercial dept. and a 12 man commercial service dept.
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Originally posted by allenwayne:
Sounds like the DIY`R tied all neutrals in 2 circuits together somewhere and one came loose.
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Not necessarily. My first thought is a mistied switched outlet threeway. :)

Also a standard plug tester,gfci included will not show a neutral to ground fault in an afci circuit.
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What tester would? The trick is, don't create neutral-ground faults when trimming. :)

[ June 04, 2005, 11:31 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Is it common to get miswired receptacles?

Because I don't think it's very easy to srcew it up.

Switches, ok, maybe that's a little easier to get all confused and freek out and just start putting wires anywhere. But receptacles.

Golly Gee already.
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Had an open neutral on a receptacle this week. It had nothing to do with the recep, it was a mistied-dead-end threeway switched outlet. :D

There's also going too fast trimming receptacles, they can get goofed. Takes a really green guy, or a guy too at-ease and thinking about 4pm. :D
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

In Roger's best Bevis voice
Heh, heh,.. gimme a screw diver
Beavis_3.gif
..... heh ..I'm like.. heh ...one of those.............. Journey dudes
.........................heh, heh.
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Originally posted by georgestolz:
The only other obvious culprit is a mis-tied farmer switch.
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That a piece of slang that I'm not famaliar with. Can someone 'splain what a farmer switch is?
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Sorry. Power to the outlet first, then a two-wire pulled to the switch. If mistied, it results in switching the neutral instead of the hot. :)
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Don`t sweat it george i get it all week long from CM`s.I`ll be the first to admit our trim out crews are nothing but installers,ask them how a 3 way 4 way 3 way works and they are dumbfounded.Notice I said installers not electricians.
Sad but true with the volume of work we do it is nearly impossible to have that many electricians around,that`s why we have hot check ELECTRICIANS tweek out these homes first.We average 7 finals a day.and at quartley and christmas crunch time double that number.
Some times I yearn to be back in a small shop and not have these head aches.But I get paid what i do to put up with the pressure and make it happen ;) Guess I have big shoulders and the just keep pileing it on more and more :mad:
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Posted by George:

Or, realize that when a plug tester reads "hot-ground reverse" it means open neutral. Took two open neutrals for me to realize that's what I was seeing.
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I'm not following that. My tester has a red light for "hot-ground reverse" that wouldn't come on for just an open neutral. Any chance that your tester has a light that quit working??

Steve
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

No, it has happened (for me) with two different brands of tester.

I think if you draw it out, it makes more sense, maybe.

The way I remember it is, it would be insanely difficult to accidentally hook an ungrounded conductor to the ground screw, and then hook a grounding conductor up to a brass screw. When the tester tells you hot-ground reverse, it's an open neutral. :)

Edit: It might only happen when a load is introduced, I forget.

[ June 06, 2005, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

I'm gonna have to take this thing apart anyway, aren't I. (That a period because it's retorical)
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Originally posted by physis:
I'm gonna have to take this thing apart anyway, aren't I.
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Oh yeah right, I can see it now,

:D

Roger
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

You just mad cause I had Bart and Lisa in the other one. :D

Edit: The hardest thing 'll be getting it apart.
laughing-smiley-014.gif


[ June 06, 2005, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Originally posted by physis:
You just mad cause I had Bart and Lisa in the other one. :D
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Sam, I'm not mad, I love ya. :D

Roger
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

Don't worry Rog, I'm from the shtreet, thicker skin than that.
 
Re: Dumb question but I'm serious

I had a yellow IDEAl with the neon lights that worked great for years, and for what ever reason it literally blew up. I thought someone was playing a joke with my tester. I checked the outlet with a meter and all was good. I put another tester in and had no problems. I still have no idea what happened. All I can figure is that a wire inside got loose and shorted out internally. Some of the wires they use in there are like paper clips. no insulation.
 
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