EC working unlicened "electricans"
- Thread starter stumpyjr
- Start date
- Status
Ken9876
Senior Member
- Location
- Jersey Shore
If I understand what your saying, The license holder can have as many unlicensed people working for him. In NJ he would have to over see the work somehow or at least know whats going on. If his guys are working for themselves unlicensed in NJ on the side that would be a fourth degree offense
, In my area it is very common to have apprentices "run" residential jobs.speedystevie
Senior Member
- Location
- Long Island, NY
I've never heard of the employees being required to have a license by any laws. I know that in some circumstances you may be required to have a certain amount of licenses per employees, e.g. 1 Master to every 5 workers.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Licensing requirements are not controlled by the NEC and are very different from one area to another.
In this area every electrical job is required to have at least one licensed electrician (Journeyman or Master) for every apprentice on the job.
In this area every electrical job is required to have at least one licensed electrician (Journeyman or Master) for every apprentice on the job.
Re: EC working unlicened "electricans"
So what! The owner of the shop is a license holder and the qualified electricain for his business.
His electricians (employees) may or may not have licenses. Doesn't matter. They are working under his.
Now here's the important part: He has to supervise or be very sure his electricians are qualified/capable of doing the job. If they can't, then his license could be revoked/suspended.
On a jobsite we are required to have at 1:3 ratio. 1 Master/Journeyman for every 3 apprentices.
stumpyjr said:
So what! The owner of the shop is a license holder and the qualified electricain for his business.
His electricians (employees) may or may not have licenses. Doesn't matter. They are working under his.
Now here's the important part: He has to supervise or be very sure his electricians are qualified/capable of doing the job. If they can't, then his license could be revoked/suspended.
On a jobsite we are required to have at 1:3 ratio. 1 Master/Journeyman for every 3 apprentices.
Re: EC working unlicened "electricans"
Do YOU have a license?
As we have no idea where you are located (and therefore what laws apply), no one can give you a "correct" answer.
If YOU started your own company, YOU would know if what the other guy is doing legal (because YOU would know what laws apply).
stumpyjr said:
Do YOU have a license?
As we have no idea where you are located (and therefore what laws apply), no one can give you a "correct" answer.
If YOU started your own company, YOU would know if what the other guy is doing legal (because YOU would know what laws apply).
ryan_618
Senior Member
- Location
- Salt Lake City, Utah
jes25 said:
That are states that don't license electricians whatsoever.
jes25 said:
Yes.
In NJ, for example....as a licensed EC, I can have ANYONE go out in the field and do installs, repairs, troubleshoot, etc. BUT, if something should go "wrong" - it will come back to ME - the licensed EC.
I could (basically) have 35 kids of legal working age without a clue wiring up homes, businesses, factories, churches, movie theaters, marinas, etc and it would be perfectly legal (but not neccessarily a smart business move - financially).
Why back when, when I was just a wee lad working for an EC, all 2 yrs experience of myself traveled about 50 miles down the shore to wire up a restaurant from scratch. I was totally clueless. The EC's #1 guy, #2 guy, and #3 guy had ALL quit in about a 30 day span. Now I was his #1 (God help us!). I failed EVERY inspection (thank you Mr. Inspector, can I have another red sticker) at least twice...and this was quite legal. Stupid, but legal.
Today, the scenario remains the same. An EC can have as many "unskilled" people as he wants.
I prefer the way some of the other states operate where they require a ratio of mechanics/jw to apprentices. It seemed NJ *might* head in that direction when they began issueing "Journeyman Wireman Cards" - in reality, that was just a scam to collect some money....I have NEVER been asked to show my JW card or been asked to provide proof that any employees have a JW card.
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
jes25 said:
Jes24, I did a quick check on this link and found 7 states without a state license. Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, New York, and Pennsylvania. Also, several of those have not adopted the NEC at all.
We have a 2:1 ratio and are required to have apprentices under "direct" supervision. But most of my competitors don't, they send out apprentices by themselves.
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
The law around here requires one licensed journeyman or master providing immediate supervision for every two unlicensed workers. I have no idea how this is enforced, though.
My take is that anyone doing electrical work for pay should be licensed or supervised by someone who is. So, basically, I agree with the law here. I know that some states only require a master for the company, and the company can then have hundreds of employees doing electrical work even if they don't know what they are doing. I find it absurd that one person with a master license would be able to be responsible for work done by a whole bunch of unlicensed people. Or is the theory that since the master is the one holding the bag, he has an incentive to make sure the workers know what they are doing?
My take is that anyone doing electrical work for pay should be licensed or supervised by someone who is. So, basically, I agree with the law here. I know that some states only require a master for the company, and the company can then have hundreds of employees doing electrical work even if they don't know what they are doing. I find it absurd that one person with a master license would be able to be responsible for work done by a whole bunch of unlicensed people. Or is the theory that since the master is the one holding the bag, he has an incentive to make sure the workers know what they are doing?
jeff43222
Senior Member
- Location
- Minneapolis, Minnesota
Minuteman said:
Don't forget Wisconsin. Wisconsin does have something called a state "credential," but it is not a license. All licensing in Wisconsin is done locally, and the localities are free to set their own requirements for licensure, with one restriction: Anyone holding a state credential is automatically considered qualified for any local license of the same type. Some localities require a state credential to qualify for their license, some don't, and some don't even have licensing/permits/inspections.
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
In Washington State, all persons working as electricians must have a license. You can apply for an "Electrical Trainee" license on line (I did), and they will mail you a certificate. My certificate says that for certain types of work, I must have a licensed journeyman supervise my work at least 75% of the time, and that I must be supervised 100% of the time for all other types of work. To work without supervision would subject a trainee to a fine, and to have unlicensed trainees working under your supervision would subject the journeyman to a fine.
By the way, I got the license a couple years ago, as a "lark," in the time period "between jobs." I have never had an occasion to use it.
By the way, I got the license a couple years ago, as a "lark," in the time period "between jobs." I have never had an occasion to use it.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
iwire said:
Even in our area of strict licensing, this rule is frequently broken.
On the local government's license check page, the most frequent violation found is unlicensed employees and being out of ratio.
c10charles
Member
- Location
- Silicon Valley
Interesting what a master license means outside of Calif. It dosn't carry any weight here, it sure should. A new law in CA requires that EC's hire only licensed electricians. They take a test written by the state. EC's take a different test written by the state and they can do any electrical work themselves. I'm not sure exactly what the rule is for IBEW contrators but I think they can have a few apprentices for each licensed electrician. I think a loophole exist for Gen. Contractors. A GC in CA can do electrical work if the GC is doing three trades on the same job, e.g., a house remodel. I don't think he has to hire a licensed electrician. Only an EC is required to hire a licensed electrician. If you think this is confusing you should see the new language required in our written contracts....
True. Wisconsin Master's is a credential, not a license. Each muni has their own "licenses," that is the permission to do work in that muni.
Unfortunately, there are some areas that do not have an inspection program in place and all an "electrical contractor" has to do is sign an affidavit stating the work was done to code.
This usually occurs in the less populated areas away from the big city. I would be more afraid in the outskirts of seeing less than reputable work. Although it does exist in the big city, which is under the auspices of an electrical inspection by the Building Dept.
I am a Master licenced EC in Colorado. To do work in Colorado you have to carry at least a RESIDENTIAL WIREMANS license to do anything on your own, under a MASTER licence. 2 registered apprentices may work under any licence. What pisses me off is he is lowballing jobs to get them even though the local inspector KNOWS he is'nt using licensed electricians.I don't mean to whine but what do you do!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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