EC working unlicened "electricans"

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stumpyjr, don't you have a state licensing board to file a complaint with? If I were you I would file a complaint and document it and then see if any action is taken. Around here for unpermitted or unlicensed work you have to file a typed and signed complaint letter. If you just call them they ignore you but once the paper work is submitted they have to take action.
 
Usually the state licensing authorities only have real power over their licensees. There's not much they can do about unlicensed people. If they catch a licensee doing things he's not supposed to do, they can suspend/revoke the license. But if Joe the handyman gets caught, he has no license to suspend.

What happens around here when Joe the handyman's advertisement offering to do electrical work finds its way to the state authorities, the state sends him a cease-and-desist letter, assuming they can find him. If all they have to go on is a name and a cell phone number, they are often too hard to track down. If Joe ignores the cease-and-desist letter, it's unlikely anything will be done to him, as the attorney general's office doesn't have the resources to go after him. That's what the state authorities have told me.

But the one good thing is that the newspapers where these guys advertise are also copied with the cease-and-desist letters, and they generally pull the ads. So I know that sending these ads to the authorities does make some difference.
 
In the periodic newsletters sent out by the Washington State Department of Labor and Industries, there are occasional lists of fines and suspensions awarded for various infractions. It does include persons fined for working as electricians without the proper license.
 
It's my understanding that Florida vigorously pursues unlicensed activity cases. There is a report to the Board each session on unlicensed activity.

Good for them.
 
jeff43222 said:
Usually the state licensing authorities only have real power over their licensees. There's not much they can do about unlicensed people. If they catch a licensee doing things he's not supposed to do, they can suspend/revoke the license. But if Joe the handyman gets caught, he has no license to suspend.
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Maybe no license to revoke...but a hefty fine will be an adequete substitute.

Here are minutes from NJ's Board of Examiner's of Electrical Contractors:
http://www.nj.gov/lps/ca/electric/minutes/elecmin.htm


Practicing ANY licensed trade (electrical, hairdressing, doctoring, etc) w/o the proper credentials is a crime - plan and simple.
 
Jeff43222, Joe the handyman may not have an electrical license but it's normally illegal to operate without a business license. To check for a license you need to know a name and place of business ( home address). If they are doing work that requires a permit all you need is the job address. Guys like the one stumpyjr is complaining about are the easiest because he is running what appears to be a legitimate business in an illegal manor. If his people are required to have cards to work in his state, I say report him because they are only taking work from those that are obeying the rules.
 
growler said:
Jeff43222, Joe the handyman may not have an electrical license but it's normally illegal to operate without a business license.
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Unfortunately, that's not quite how it works up here. Businesses only need licenses if they are involved in certain activities. A handyman can do business without a license as long as he doesn't do things that require a license. Of course, most handymen do things that require a builder/remodeler license, and many also will do plumbing and electrical work, which are separately licensed.

I don't have a "business license," but I do have an EC license in addition to my master license. The EC license lets me operate a business to perform electrical work, and the master license lets me personally do the work. (An EC license by itself doesn't entitle the holder to actually perform electrical work.)

growler said:
To check for a license you need to know a name and place of business ( home address). If they are doing work that requires a permit all you need is the job address.
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They make it quite easy up here. The state has a Website with a link that lists every licensed EC in the state. State law says any EC must have its name, as it appears on the EC license, in all advertising and other documentation connected to the company. So when Joe the handyman advertises electrical work, it's easy to check the state Website to see if Joe's "company" is a licensed EC.

Residential builders/remodelers have to list their license numbers in their ads, but ECs don't. I put mine in anyway. I figure it reminds people that licensing is something they should look for when they hire someone to do electrical work.

growler said:
Guys like the one stumpyjr is complaining about are the easiest because he is running what appears to be a legitimate business in an illegal manor. If his people are required to have cards to work in his state, I say report him because they are only taking work from those that are obeying the rules.
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I agree with you. Those are pretty much the only ones the state seems to go after with regard to electrical work. Unlicensed builders/remodelers seem to get nabbed on a regular basis, but in the electrical trade, it seems that the only enforcement actions are taken against people who already have an electrician or EC license and are breaking the rules.

Almost makes me wonder why I went to all the trouble to get my licenses.
 
I?m a licensed electrician running a one man small operation and have no intentions of expanding larger than a one or two person operation, my kids if they choose to follow in my footsteps. :)

I may be in the minority, but I see no problem with licensed contractors having non-licensed individuals working for them. The licensed professionals are responsible for the work. For the most part around here, those ECs contract out for large jobs, have higher overhead costs and they cannot compete nor do they wish to compete for small residential or commercial work. My work speaks for itself and has helped my business grow. I welcome the competition.

Having an EC license does not automatically make you a good electrician. :idea:
 
I find it absurd that one person with a master license would be able to be responsible for work done by a whole bunch of unlicensed people.
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Just out of curiosity: Why would that be any different than being responsible for work done by a whole bunch of licensed people? I have over the years used unlicensed people with experience who were much better than some of the licensed people I have had working for me.

Now, this was in the past. MI currently says if you do elect work, you must be licensed. There are a few exceptions to this but not many.

Enforcement is also very lax.
 
I've seen good electricians without cards and bad electricians with cards. In my opinion all states should require some sort of regulation that not only ensures that customers get a qualified tradesman, but also ensures that the tradesman is properly educated in the field the they are working in, and are aware of all changes that pertain to their code. What happens by not requiring some sort of certification is that no body will want to go through the training to become and electrician. Then they want to receive top dollar for what they do. On the other hand, you have an individual who takes the training, becomes certified, and then goes to a job that is run by an un-licensed individual. I would much rather have someone who is serious about their job enough to get the proper training and become certified than someone who wants to slip through the cracks.
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
In NY State, most of the municipalities do not require a license... if your dog can pull wire, he has a job. You can imagine some of the work that is being installed...........................
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Yes, I imagine it is about the same as here in MI where the law basically states that other than your own home you have to be licensed to do any electrical work. I do not see much enforcement of this law though. :)
 
memyselfandI said:
I've seen good electricians without cards and bad electricians with cards. In my opinion all states should require some sort of regulation that not only ensures that customers get a qualified tradesman, but also ensures that the tradesman is properly educated in the field the they are working in, and are aware of all changes that pertain to their code. What happens by not requiring some sort of certification is that no body will want to go through the training to become and electrician. Then they want to receive top dollar for what they do. On the other hand, you have an individual who takes the training, becomes certified, and then goes to a job that is run by an un-licensed individual. I would much rather have someone who is serious about their job enough to get the proper training and become certified than someone who wants to slip through the cracks.
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I tend to agree with your post.

The qualified electrician must be a Master in Wisconsin. That person does not need to be the owner. A Master in WI is a certification. It is not a license.
A journeyman card is granted to anyone who succesfully completes & passes a State approved apprenticeship program. The other way to become a journeyman is to pass a written exam after provong you have 5 yrs electrical installation experience. A Master is 7 yrs.
Anyone may employ anyone else whether the employee is a master, journeyman, apprentice, helper or just a body.
I personally have hired non-electrical people and put them to work running trenchers or even pulling wire. As long as they were supervised I did not have a problem.
Do all employees need to be certified or licensed? NO. Supervision is the key here. As long as the employee is supervised, who cares!
 
Very Interesting!
In Texas its all screwed up now!
2 years ago the state took over licensing.

1)Under the grand fathering every cow pung country hick that ever put a screwdriver in a receptacle in a small town & bought a local authority a cup of coffee was allowed a Master license with out ever testing. These guys have now removed the cinder blocks from under the old oil burning pickup & are out learning a trade & underbidding everyone @ $20 per hour rates. Thes eguys never took a class or had any other license.
2) the state lowered the requirements for Journeyman & Master Licenses.
3) created a so called residential wiremans license, of course there is still the apprentice license. 2 years no classes, Journeyman residential license.
4) the state changed the continuing Ed to every year, for 4 hours. The class for this was a joke, as 1/2 of the class could not speak a word of english & needed help filling out the papers. But if you attend, you pass!
5) Texas created a EC license, just so they can get another fee from me for another License #.
6)There is no legal ratio that I am aware of for on the job, as long as you have paid the state a fee for some sort of license. The local Unions have their own ratio's in order to keep an apprentice class & to bully out the slow older experienced workers into an early retirement or a new carreer at Home Depot in the electrical department.

The Master is still, always has been, responsible for the work being done. But this does not mean he has to be babysitting the illegal immigrants at every taco stand they wire up.
The local papers are full of un licensed electricians advertising for work. It was nice in Massachusetts that we had to post our license #'s on our ads. I think Colorado does too? No one does it here.

With the internet & web sites, most states are opening pages that you can file online complaints against licensed or unlicensed professionals.
I think that those of us on here, are legit, and don't want to be investigated or have our licenses pulled. The others don't care either way, they are just trying to make money the easy way. Fraud!

My lawyer advised me not to let my son get a drivers license when he turned 16. He said the state cannot suspend a license if there is no license. Driving with a suspended license get you put in jail immediately. Having no license only gets you a ticket. But this is another thread for another forum. Sorry.......

When in Rome do like the Romans?
 
77401 said:
6)....The local Unions have their own ratio's in order to keep an apprentice class & to bully out the slow older experienced workers into an early retirement or a new carreer at Home Depot in the electrical department.
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I think you'll find that the unions will have a 3:1 ratio (JW:A) and that many jobs (after they reach a certain point - either manpower of monetary) have a requirement to hire x amount of "slow older experienced workers".

...this is assuming you actually look for the reference.



77401 said:
The Master is still, always has been, responsible for the work being done. But this does not mean he has to be babysitting the illegal immigrants at every taco stand they wire up.
The local papers are full of un licensed electricians advertising for work. It was nice in Massachusetts that we had to post our license #'s on our ads. I think Colorado does too? No one does it here.
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So move back to Massachusetts....your comments lately clearly indicate you are not happy in the south.

NJ requires all ECs to have lic. # and business permit # listed on ALL paperwork - ads, business cards, etc
 
77401 wrote:
In Texas its all screwed up now!
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Well, I feel for you. If we could only pick certain things from each State and have very strict enforcement; we would have a truly great place to work and do business.

I have this feeling, though, that we might not be able to all come to agreement on just which items to pick from which States.

The Master is still, always has been, responsible for the work being done. But this does not mean he has to be babysitting the illegal immigrants at every taco stand they wire up.
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:( :(

Cheer up I suspect that our illustrious politicians will soon make them legal and that will solve part of your problem. :p
 
This thread has just gotten political, and it is on its way towards ethnic bashing. We're not going there.

IMO it has served its purpose, or at least no further commentary would further advance its purpose.

I am closing it here and now.
 
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