Economics of "no live work" in residential service work

[GoldDigger]

Yes, they would work eventually, if the overload is bad enough. I’ve spent some miserably cold mornings working on hog waters that tripped during the night. Short circuits though. Design it for normal conditions, go home, sleep well.

And equally importantly, as you hint at, the magnetic trip would respond with virtually no change at the lower temperature.

 

[kwired]

Yes, they would work eventually, if the overload is bad enough. I’ve spent some miserably cold mornings working on hog waters that tripped during the night. Short circuits though. Design it for normal conditions, go home, sleep well.

One nice thing about most swine operations is that they are typically indoors now. Haven't fixed hardly any hog watering units in years now.

The few "dirt raised hogs" that are still around that I encounter are just a dozen here or there that are raised to be shipped to a local locker for processing, often primarily for friends/family of who is raising them and not so much for making any profits.

 

[jmellc]

Is any one aware of a residential service focused electrical contracting company that has successfully an implemented a strict “no live work” policy? I’m curious to hear about how such a policy has impacted the business’ ability to win jobs when the perceived “hassle” is high, relative to industry norms.

A simple example: A customer needs a malfunctioning single-pole breaker replaced in their panel. The main breaker of this panel is also the service disconnect, so the only way to completely de-energize the panel would be for the power company to temporarily disconnect the home’s electric service. (The same constraints would apply to any work that requires removing the panel cover.)

For the “no live work” contractor, the lead-time for such a job might be days or weeks depending on the power company. Additionally, the customer would lose power for some portion of the day.

Meanwhile - there are likely many competitors that are willing to do the job “live”, and can offer same-day service, with no power-outage, for a presumably lower price (they don’t need to account for the additional coordination with the power company).

Bottom line - setting aside the merits of such a policy - are there any real world examples of a company proving it is economically viable to run a residential service business that prohibits live work?

Thanks!

No live work sounds good but it’s a lot of BS. Some troubleshooting is only practical with live power. Checking amp loads, travelers & other switch legs, etc. I worked for one company with the policy but unofficially, live work was done all the time.

 

[jmellc]

Good on ya Don! I have often wondered why we cannot have separate compartment panels in the United States. Canada has not suffered complete collapse of it's home building industry because they require it so I'm not willing to accept that we've never done it so it can never work here. Hell I might even be willing to go a step farther and require that the cover be fitted in such a way that you cannot remove it from the cabinet unless the breaker handle is in the off position. All that requires is extended guides at each corner to keep the panel cover from being manipulated free with the breaker still on and a breaker with a handle which is larger at it's tip than it is where it comes through it's slot in the outer cover.

The real remedy is at hand however. All future service installs on dwellings will have to have an exterior disconnect once the 2020 edition of the NEC is adopted in your locality. What I foresee is a lot of 3R main breaker enclosures being installed out at the meter with an Main Lug Only panelboard inside. That will be the least cost means of compliance with this mandate for exterior disconnect on all dwellings. A lot more 4 wire SER cable, add on grounding conductor busbars, and similar parts will be sold because the cable or raceway from the main breaker enclosure will now contain a feeder instead of Service Entry Conductors. But somehow I cannot see this as the TEOTWAWKI.

They tell me that it is for Firefighter safety so I should be all for it but if you want to reduce the risks to firefighters as much as is practical you Auto Fire Sprinkler the building. If we were to somehow get an exterior main breaker retrofitted on every house we would not save anywhere near the lives that we would save by giving subsidies for home fire sprinkler installations in existing homes. The firefighters will not have to be in terrible danger when they do the utility control because in almost every case the fire will be extinguished before the firefighters begin to respond to the sprinkler water flow alarm. They would arrive to a building with a cool and non deadly atmosphere and be able to simply walk in and open the Service Disconnecting Means. But just like Canada's separate compartment service connections it is too much like sense.

Firefighters can pull the meter but I am told they consider it too risky. Riskier than entering a burning building? If a meter scares them, they should go home.

 

[paulengr]

No live work sounds good but it’s a lot of BS. Some troubleshooting is only practical with live power. Checking amp loads, travelers & other switch legs, etc. I worked for one company with the policy but unofficially, live work was done all the time.

Troubleshooting is specifically exempted. Not BS. Typical scenario is you open the panel and use your meter to find the problem. Then once the problem is located if you have to detach or attach wiring you de-energize the wiring. It’s simple common sense.

Linemen do live work all the time but there are huge differences. OSHA does not forbid live work on overhead lines. Clearances are much larger. They are wearing gloves or using insulated tools. The tools themselves are designed for live work. If you’re not working on equipment built like that with tools like that and gloves like that, don’t do it.

 

[electrofelon]

Firefighters can pull the meter but I am told they consider it too risky. Riskier than entering a burning building? If a meter scares them, they should go home.

Yeah I always found that reasoning for the exterior disconnect BS. 15 minutes of training and keeping some gloves and a face shield in the truck could have negated the whole exterior disconnect.