EGC

[domnic]

Looked at a job today . and the owner of the building asked me a question that I was not sure of. they ran 3/4' conduit without a EGC conductor so they tie raped a # 12 green wire to the conduit from the panel 20 amp breaker to the outlet. the conduit is pvc . code violation ?

 

[ActionDave]

Pull out your codebook and look at 300.3.

How were the connections made at each end anyway?

 

[domnic]

EGC

The 12# 12 wire interred the panel with a romex connector. what would the approved method ?

 

[ActionDave]

The 12# 12 wire interred the panel with a romex connector. what would the approved method ?

It is a code violation. EGC has to be inside the PVC conduit. 300.3(B) is the reference.

 

[domnic]

egc

egc

article 250.130 (c) permits gec on the outside or the pvc.

 

[ActionDave]

article 250.130 (c) permits gec on the outside or the pvc.

That is specific to adding a EGC to existing two wire circuits.

 

[domnic]

egc

egc

That is specific to adding a EGC to existing two wire circuits.

Wear in NEC does it say that ? it states receptacles that could be 2 wire or 3 wire with no EGC.

 

[GoldDigger]

Wear in NEC does it say that ? it states receptacles that could be 2 wire or 3 wire with no EGC.

There is no allowance for installing a new wiring run ending in a two-wire receptacle, therefore there can be no allowance for adding the EGC after the fact to an existing two wire receptacle when the receptacle and run are both new work.
OR were both new work at a time when three wire receptacles were already mandated.

 

[ActionDave]

Wear in NEC does it say that ? it states receptacles that could be 2 wire or 3 wire with no EGC.

250.130(c) has to do with existing installations.

250.130 Equipment Grounding ConductorConnections

Equipment grounding conductor connections at the source
of separately derived systems shall be made in accordance
with 250.30(A)(1). Equipment grounding conductor connec-
tions at service equipment shall be made as indicated in
250.130(A) or (B). For replacement of non–grounding-type
receptacles with grounding-type receptacles and for branch-
circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not
have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch cir-
cuit, connections shall be permitted as indicated in
250.130(C).

Furthermore, you are not allowed to put a three wire recpt on a two wire circuit unless you use GFCI protection.

406.4 General Installation Requirements

Receptacle outlets shall be located in branch circuits in accor-
dance with Part III of Article 210. General installation re-
quirements shall be in accordance with 406.4(A) through (F).
(A) Grounding Type. Receptacles installed on 15- and
20-ampere branch circuits shall be of the grounding type.
Grounding-type receptacles shall be installed only on cir-
cuits of the voltage class and current for which they are
rated, except as provided in Table 210.21(B)(2) and Table
210.21(B)(3).
Exception: Nongrounding-type receptacles installed in ac-
cordance with 406.4(D).

 

[user 100]

Looked at a job today . and the owner of the building asked me a question that I was not sure of. they ran 3/4' conduit without a EGC conductor so they tie raped a # 12 green wire to the conduit from the panel 20 amp breaker to the outlet. the conduit is pvc . code violation ?

They needed a receptacle after the fact and since they didn't pull an egc in the conduit to begin with they just piggy backed with the single #12-why couldn't they just pull an extra wire?

 

[domnic]

egc

egc

Shofar no one has came up with a nec article that's disallows the the EGC on the outside of the existing pvc conduit .

 

[ActionDave]

Shofar no one has came up with a nec article that's disallows the the EGC on the outside of the existing pvc conduit .

300.3(B). The exceptions do not apply to the install you are asking about.

 

[domnic]

EGC

Article 250.134 (B) exception #1 permits EGC to be run separately from other conductors.

 

[ActionDave]

Article 250.134 (B) exception #1 permits EGC to be run separately from other conductors.

That exception refers you right back to 250.130(C).

 

[user 100]

300.3(B). The exceptions do not apply to the install you are asking about.

I agree-this sounds too much like a modern add on to modern products (pvc isn't exactly rag wrap nm or ancient bx) and another thing to consider with this install (maybe) could be 250.120(c)- this lone #12 could be subject to physical damage.

 

[domnic]

EGC

no were in article 250. 130 (c) mentions a 2 wire or 3 wire receptacle. it talks about adding a EGC to a non grounded existing receptacle. if am wrong what part of the wording in article do I not understand ?

 

[ActionDave]

no were in article 250. 130 (c) mentions a 2 wire or 3 wire receptacle. it talks about adding a EGC to a non grounded existing receptacle. if am wrong what part of the wording in article do I not understand ?

This part...

250.130 Equipment Grounding Conductor Connections

Equipment grounding conductor connections at the source
of separately derived systems shall be made in accordance
with 250.30(A)(1). Equipment grounding conductor connec-
tions at service equipment shall be made as indicated in
250.130(A) or (B). For replacement of non–grounding-type
receptacles with grounding-type receptacles and for branch-
circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch circuit, connections shall be permitted as indicated in
250.130(C).

That PVC conduit would have to be fifty years old to be of an era when EGC were not required.

 

[user 100]

This part...



That PVC conduit would have to be fifty years old to be of an era when EGC were not required.

:thumbsup:. Since 1962 (maybe a little later due to ahj), the NEC has required an egc and that the egc be run in the same raceway as the cccs. Obviously you wouldn't add an egc if it was required to begin with-if the egc was added during this time frame the install isn't compliant.

 

[ActionDave]

And this part.....

90.3 Code Arrangement
This Code is divided into the introduction and nine chapters,
as shown in Figure 90.3. Chapters 1, 2, 3, and 4 apply gener-
ally;

Which means you can't ignore this part....

300.3 Conductors

(B) Conductors of the Same Circuit. All conductors of
the same circuit and, where used, the grounded conductor
and all equipment grounding conductors and bonding con-
ductors shall be contained within the same raceway, auxil-
iary gutter, cable tray, cablebus assembly, trench, cable, or
cord, unless otherwise permitted in accordance with
300.3(B)(1) through (B)(4).

Which does include this exception....

(2) Grounding and Bonding Conductors. Equipment
grounding conductors shall be permitted to be installed out-
side a raceway or cable assembly where in accordance with
the provisions of 250.130(C) for certain existing installa-
tions or in accordance with 250.134(B), Exception No. 2, for
dc circuits. Equipment bonding conductors shall be permit-
ted to be installed on the outside of raceways in accordance
with 250.102(E).

But only under these circumstances.....

250.130 Equipment Grounding Conductor Connections

...For replacement of non–grounding-type
receptacles with grounding-type receptacles and for branch-
circuit extensions only in existing installations that do not
have an equipment grounding conductor in the branch cir-
cuit, connections

 

[iwire]

And this part.....



Which means you can't ignore this part....


Which does include this exception....

But only under these circumstances.....

AD has it down. :thumbsup: