Egress Stairwell in IBC

[George Stolz]

I want to run a circuit for an exterior sign 16' above the interior stairwell landing in a hospital, the mid landing between the top floor and the roof. Does the IBC permit this?

 

[Dr Duke]

I am not sure if building code allows for this. Why wouldn't building code permit it? Maybe needing to be fircaulked? As long as it wouldn't imped the flow of foot traffic. Or reduce the lumens below the permissible level in the stairway. I couldn't tell you the answer, but I can't see why not.

Im here to learn

 

[George Stolz]

Me too.

I am specifically looking for IBC 2012 references, because all the references I'm finding looking around are old and not pointing me at the right text. From what I am reading, it seems to me you shouldn't be able to hit your arm or head on it, but being 16' above the floor kinda rules that out.

 

[mgookin]

How many stories is your hospital?

 

[George Stolz]

How many stories is your hospital?

Five.

 

[iwire]

I am not sure if building code allows for this. Why wouldn't building code permit it? Maybe needing to be fircaulked? As long as it wouldn't imped the flow of foot traffic. Or reduce the lumens below the permissible level in the stairway. I couldn't tell you the answer, but I can't see why not.

Im here to learn

A reason why is in many instances you cannot run conduits in egress stairways that are not related to that stairway.

 

[mgookin]

Five.

You're not a high rise but you still have 1009.3.1.5 and 1009.3.1.5.1 which says it's a no go.

If that's a 2 hour stairwell and you can put a 2 hour barrier around it, the code authorities may see that as being outside of the stairwell because it and the stairwell will be separated by the required rating of the stairwell. You should run this by the bldg dept, the fire marshal and the state agency for healthcare admin if you want to try this route.

 

[Dr Duke]

Makes sense. Should definitely consult local authorities.

 

[gadfly56]

You're not a high rise but you still have 1009.3.1.5 and 1009.3.1.5.1 which says it's a no go.

If that's a 2 hour stairwell and you can put a 2 hour barrier around it, the code authorities may see that as being outside of the stairwell because it and the stairwell will be separated by the required rating of the stairwell. You should run this by the bldg dept, the fire marshal and the state agency for healthcare admin if you want to try this route.

In NJ it's the Joint Commission, and they frequently have more stringent requirements than the building/fire code.

 

[construct]

I want to run a circuit for an exterior sign 16' above the interior stairwell landing in a hospital, the mid landing between the top floor and the roof. Does the IBC permit this?

Since exit access stairways have to be enclosed, required by 2012 IBC section 1009.3, they are defined as a shaft. The walls are a shaft enclosure and must be constructed as a fire barrier having a fire-resistance rating of 2-hours for more than 4 stories.

Then you look at prohibited penetrations in shaft enclosures, sec 713.8.1 states : Penetrations other than those necessary for the purpose of the shaft shall not be permitted in shaft enclosures.

 

[steve66]

In NJ it's the Joint Commission, and they frequently have more stringent requirements than the building/fire code.

The joint commission isn't an AHJ or a code enforcement agency. They are an accreditation and certification agency. At least around here.

Sure, most hospitals' want a good review from them, but I don't think they are likely to be looking something like this.

 

[gadfly56]

The joint commission isn't an AHJ or a code enforcement agency. They are an accreditation and certification agency. At least around here.

Sure, most hospitals' want a good review from them, but I don't think they are likely to be looking something like this.

You would be amazed. At my last company we had a number of health care facilities as clients, all under the jurisdiction of the Joint Commission. It didn't matter if it met code, if it didn't meet the Joint Commission standards it was a deficiency, and they could shut down the facility for it.

 

[dkidd]

You would be amazed. At my last company we had a number of health care facilities as clients, all under the jurisdiction of the Joint Commission. It didn't matter if it met code, if it didn't meet the Joint Commission standards it was a deficiency, and they could shut down the facility for it.

Same in Florida and Texas.

 

[RICK NAPIER]

In NJ it's the Joint Commission, and they frequently have more stringent requirements than the building/fire code.

In NJ it would be the Department of Community Affairs Bureau of Construction Project Review. They are responsible for all plan review for facilities that need licensing from the Department of Health and Human Services. They can release the review to the local building department if they feel the project warrants it.

 

[gadfly56]

In NJ it would be the Department of Community Affairs Bureau of Construction Project Review. They are responsible for all plan review for facilities that need licensing from the Department of Health and Human Services. They can release the review to the local building department if they feel the project warrants it.

Rick, we're talking about existing facilities, not new construction. The JC can and has required facilities to upgrade based on new codes whereas the Rehabilitation Subcode would generally not.

 

[steve66]

You would be amazed. At my last company we had a number of health care facilities as clients, all under the jurisdiction of the Joint Commission. It didn't matter if it met code, if it didn't meet the Joint Commission standards it was a deficiency, and they could shut down the facility for it.

They are an accreditation and certification organization. They don't "shut down" facilities. They yank the accreditation.

Accreditation is very important to most facilities, but the Joint Commission is still very separate from any "AHJ" or building inspections. They may review some code related building items, but much of their review is based more on hospital and staff procedures than on pure building construction.

This explains the Joint Commission:

https://www.jointcommission.org/about/jointcommissionfaqs.aspx#2274

In particular:

back to top

Q: Is accreditation or certification mandatory?
A: No. Health care organizations, programs, and services voluntarily pursue accreditation and certification.

 

[GoldDigger]

Q: Is accreditation or certification mandatory?
A: No. Health care organizations, programs, and services voluntarily pursue accreditation and certification.

But Medicare and private insurance companies may not pay for treatment in unaccredited facilities.

mobile