JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
The grounded conductor is a current carrying conductor. If it opens, and you get between the frame of the dryer (if bonded to the neutral) and the washer, you become part of the neutral path.
Electric Range
- Thread starter solo618
- Start date
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The grounded conductor is a current carrying conductor. If it opens, and you get between the frame of the dryer (if bonded to the neutral) and the washer, you become part of the neutral path.
steelersman
Senior Member
- Location
- Lake Ridge, VA
The way I understand it, it's the same thing as why you need to keep the neutral seperate from the ground on a feeder at the sub-panel. A long time ago my wife at the time got shocked from the oven/stove in our apartment. Thinking back on it I believe she was touching the stainless steel sink at the same time.
With these 3 wire setups, you have current traveling on the bare/ground conductor, which also means that you also have current on the entire frame/housing/shell of the stove or dryer. So all it takes is for someone to touch that while touching another ground path and they can take some of the current through themselves.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Without a doubt that could happen but I sure would like to know if that was happening.:smile:
On the other hand with a three wire set up and a open neutral the dryer stops working and gets serviced, with a 4 wire set up and an open EGC the dryer still works fine and the EGC never gets fixed.
jrannis
Senior Member
- Location
- Fort Lauderdale/ Miami
OK its a "what if"
The only 220volt load in my dryer is the heat element. the controls are 120volt and the motor is DC. Like Bob mentoned, no workie!
With a regular dryer,
What if I lost an ungrounded conductor?
Would the dark half of the house light up when the dryer came on? NO
That is just the stove dimmer method.
Its nice that we are now landing the bare wire that was just cut off during the trim out, but thats about all of the logic that exists in it for me.
JohnJ0906
Senior Member
- Location
- Baltimore, MD
True, but no matter what, if you touch the dryer (while running) and the washer, you become part of the neutral path. (for a 3 wire install).
How much current will pass through you? Depends, of course. But current passing through people isn't a good thing.
charlie said:
- Location
- Massachusetts
So your looking for plastic service enclosures?
All service equipment presents the same issue. :smile:
*(I am not against the 4 wire rule, just having fun pointing out some NEC contradictions)
RJohnsonMasterElectrician
Senior Member
- Location
- Right now ??, previously VT
thanks rob,
I stand corrected and am a man to admit it.
To who ever called it a knee jerk reaction, well guess I am a knee jerk, because when ever I encounter this and its fairly easy to do it, I will install a 4 wire. To each there own
It was not that long ago when most every drier had a mechanical time switch. I would guess the timmer (and sometimes light) would use the neutral. I remember as a kid knowing someone that would have a drier that the timmer did not work. But it still could be operated because the timmer could be rotated manualy to the on position. They could have lost the neutral/EG for the drier.
Back then I remember some people would accept things as shocks and would just say "watch out we got some bad electric here". Not knowing the exact cause or where you could get it. And refusing to call a professional, they might find a handyman friend that believes the problem is that "dang 3 prong on the washer" and you can guess the fix.
While proper training for the installers would help the big problem is the manufactures. Many ship the product in the defult 3 wire set up.
I just got a new Samsung drier, and while it's gass I was looking at the manual for electric hook-up. It basicly list 2 optinos of installing the 240v cord, 3 wire and 4 wire systems. It does not explain which one to use. The instruction there looks like a mistake to me:
4 Wire:
2. Connect the ground wire of the cord (green or unwrapped) of the power cord to the external ground screw.
3. Connect the neutral wire (white or center wire) of the power cord and the applianve ground wire (green with yellow) under the center screw of the terminal block.
tonyou812
Senior Member
- Location
- North New Jersey
I bet they gave Lowes a really good "recession" price to do all the installs. Take pictures like some one else stated and include some copies of applicable code articles. Send them to the BBB as well. LET EM REALLY HAVE IT.
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
Any ground loop is dangerous. This is why we are supposed to bond in 1 and only one location. The ground is not supposed to carry load current.
I think gndrod might be right. When I replaced my range top, I found that the old one was connected with no EGC. I ran new cable with a ground, but if I had had Lowe's do it, they wouldn't have run new cable. This was one of those typical DIY jobs that turned out not to be as simple as planned.
John Davoltra
Member
- Location
- Texas
I connected a power cable to the same unit several months ago and noticed the same. Seems like I took the back off to chase down the wire but IDR. There was a definite mistake somewhere. A novice would not know what to do.
You did not imply the manufacturers should NOT send them out bonded together, did you?
I just found this site and know I will be spending time here that I don't really have. But I can already tell I will learn a lot. Hi all.
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