Electrical Contractor?

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I am in NY so no license.I carry liability insurance and workmans comp.
I have one employee who seems more like a partner to me.Two service vehicles both lettered.A pickup that's well equipped and a mini van (not an 84 arrowstar).A bookkeeper to make sure things are paid on time.Am I an EC or a SEE? I'll answer to both!
 
emahler said:
brant's example is a good definition of an Electrical Contractor....whether a one man shop, or a 100 man shop...

being an EC or a SEE is all about your state of mind...

EC's are professional and operate as a business....

self employed electricians still think like an employee.

EC's know their numbers and have a plan....they figure out how to earn the revenue they need to live the life they want....

SEE's live the life their income allows them to...

a big part of the difference is the thought pattern of the guy....
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interesting thought process..
 
peter d said:
Quite a bit I'd say. How many 1 truck EC's or "self-employed electricians" do you see out wiring the new Lowes or Wal Mart in town? Or doing a shut down at the nuke plant? Or building the new high rise down town?

Point being is that residential is an easy market for the hacks and self-employed electricians to be in. Commercial and industrial...not so much. You actually have to be a real EC with real capital to do big jobs.
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So a company that does $20mil in roping custom homes doesn't compare to a company that signs a $20mil contract to wire Three Mile Island? Sorry, but you've been brainwashed by ECMag. It's not the type of work you do, it whether you are successful in making your company profitable and grow. Rope or pipe isn't the benchmark.

Edit to add:
Couple things I thought of while I was away from the 'puter earlier.

EC: Can read, write, comprehend and act appropriately to both a business plan and a balance sheet.
SEE: "Huh? A balance business what?"

EC: Has good credit with suppliers and bank.
SEE: Pays cash, usually asks for a large down-payment on jobs so he can go out and buy material.
 
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480sparky said:
EC: Can read, write, comprehend and act appropriately to both a business plan and a balance sheet.
SEE: "Huh? A balance business what?"

EC: Has good credit with suppliers and bank.
SEE: Pays cash, usually asks for a large down-payment on jobs so he can go out and buy material.
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those definitely play into it...
 
480sparky said:
So a company that does $20mil in roping custom homes doesn't compare to a company that signs a $20mil contract to wire Three Mile Island? Sorry, but you've been brainwashed by ECMag. It's not the type of work you do, it whether you are successful in making your company profitable and grow. Rope or pipe isn't the benchmark.
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No, you're missing my point completely. And I don't read EC Mag so I have no idea what you mean by being brainwashed.

All I was trying to say is that the residential market makes it very easy for the "self employed electrician" to stay comfortable, charge the "going rate," and just coast along. This thread's not about resi vs. comm EC's, it's about those who are electricians who are in business vs. those who run a business and are electricians.
 
peter d said:
No, you're missing my point completely. And I don't read EC Mag so I have no idea what you mean by being brainwashed.
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EC Mag likes to profile ECs. I have yet to read a profile about one that does less than $100mil/year in gross sales. "XYZ Electric si currently working on two hospitals, three malls, and 14 shcools....." They have the attitude that being big makes you successful. That's not necessarily true.


peter d said:
All I was trying to say is that the residential market makes it very easy for the "self employed electrician" to stay comfortable, charge the "going rate," and just coast along. This thread's not about resi vs. comm EC's, it's about those who are electricians who are in business vs. those who run a business and are electricians.
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In doing cookie-cutter spec homes, yes. But what about doing large customs? Doesn't it require some modicum of business sense to do millions of dollars in custom home wiring and be a sucess?

How many builders are out there that are very propserous, yet only build houses?

I'll try it another way: Sucess is not measured in how many employees you have. Nor is it measured in your annual gross sales. It is measured by whether you can make money as a business, prosper and grow. 1-man shop or 1,000-man shops, commercial or residential.....the principle is the same.
 
480sparky said:
EC Mag likes to profile ECs. I have yet to read a profile about one that does less than $100mil/year in gross sales. "XYZ Electric si currently working on two hospitals, three malls, and 14 shcools....." They have the attitude that being big makes you successful. That's not necessarily true.




In doing cookie-cutter spec homes, yes. But what about doing large customs? Doesn't it require some modicum of business sense to do millions of dollars in custom home wiring and be a sucess?

How many builders are out there that are very propserous, yet only build houses?

I'll try it another way: Sucess is not measured in how many employees you have. Nor is it measured in your annual gross sales. It is measured by whether you can make money as a business, prosper and grow. 1-man shop or 1,000-man shops, commercial or residential.....the principle is the same.
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ok...you are completely missing peter's point...he is simply stating this:

it is impossible for a SEE to operate a $20mil/yr company, period...commericial or residential...

however, it is very easy for a SEE to operate a $250,000/yr resi service company by himself for as long as he's able to put up with it...

it's way more difficult for an SEE to operate a $250,000/yr commercial company though...
 
Who cares... I just want to retire and not eat alpo dog food :)

Has anyone thought about starting a new section for "Retirement"

Oh back to the Thread.

Business = a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or a service; PROFIT-seeking enterprise or concern.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I won't retract it because I know of several cases, but I could have worded it better. Sorry. :smile:
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You lumping them in as electricians, If you can't read you can't be an electrician it is that simple. I still look forward to a retraction.
 
An "electrician" is the guy who starts the buisness out of nothing and creates a profitable enterprise thru hard gut busting and eventually raises himself and family well above what he could have done as an employee for somebody his entire career. He is usually someone who had little opportunity at the start of his working life, but wants better than what his upbringing had to offer. An "electrical contractor" is his son who gets the reins handed to him after he puts down his little league glove and graduates from the school his dad put him through. In all fairness, the sons are the ones who are best at taking the show to the top of the pile. They have a different perspective and vision than dad did.
 
bikeindy said:
You lumping them in as electricians, If you can't read you can't be an electrician it is that simple. I still look forward to a retraction.
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Let's try it a different way, you don't have to be able to pass the CA State Contactors Exam to be an electrician (or any other trade for that matter), and on the same note you do not have to be an electrician to pass the exam, you simply have to have someone willing to sign you off saying that you have the required experiance. A convicted felon cannot be a contractor in this state, but his wife can take the test and she can become the contractor, and he would simply work for her.

You don't have to speak english and you can take the exam. From what I'm aware of, the NEC is only published in english and spanish. So if you cannot read it, how are you going to learn it?
 
emahler said:
a few threads on his forum beg the question.....what qualifies someone as an Electrical Contractor vs. a Self-Employed Electrician?
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Don't most places require you to get some kind of contractor license to legally provide these kind of services to the public?

So even if you are your only employee, you might well have to be an EC.
 
Electrician:
Someone trained in the craft of installing, maintaining, repairing and operating electrical systems.


Explain to me how someone who can not read can fill this definition. You are not talking about electricians you are talking about hacks, and I don't think you should be mixing the two. Put it anyway you want your original comment is insulting.
 
bikeindy said:
Electrician:
Someone trained in the craft of installing, maintaining, repairing and operating electrical systems.


Explain to me how someone who can not read can fill this definition.
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The person was trained on the job.

You are not talking about electricians you are talking about hacks,
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Now that is insulting as I am very sure there are good electricians who have trouble reading.
 
iwire said:
The person was trained on the job.



Now that is insulting as I am very sure there are good electricians who have trouble reading.
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Yeah I guess so, since I didn't write trouble I wrote CAN"T and so did he. Trouble doesn't = Can't.
 
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