Electrical Engineer

[Lady Engineer]

Sign me up for that free MSEE, I didn't know there giving them away now.

I'll bet my buddy that paid to get his education from USC is going to be pissed off when I tell him.

I think I'm going to apply for my PE in NJ, I could use some free accredidation.

Wrong...NJ is a tough state to get a license, because they have all kinds of "red tape". The test scoring is fair (well, not to me, I only fail one portion ), but what you have to go through with becoming a candidate. Maybe just sour grapes for me...

I agree with Charlie on one part, even though I said it's not worth it. If you look at a MSEE as a learning benefit yes. I have to still stick by my decision that in this career, I would not go unless I absolutely had to or for my own self esteem. The PE...that's important! JMHO!

 

[infinity]

As an installer I would prefer if all engineers had years of practical field experience as an installer. Then the "looked good on paper" line wouldn't get used so often in the field. Now before all of my engineering friends here on this forum get annoyed that's not a slight towards engineers, it's just that how can someone who never worked in the field installing things really design something and make it the simplest and best possible installation?

 

[kingpb]

Wrong...NJ is a tough state to get a license, because they have all kinds of "red tape". The test scoring is fair (well, not to me, I only fail one portion ), but what you have to go through with becoming a candidate. Maybe just sour grapes for me...

Actually, if you have an NCEES council record, as I do, all you have to do is fill out the first part of the application, and have NCEES send them a copy of your records, and of coarse pay the fee. Really quite painless.

 

[rick hart]

Been there....

Been there....

It is never too late to be what you might have always been. I started my engineering quest, later in life than you are considering today with that saying pushing me along. Goals are good to have but it is more important to have a plan to acheive them.

Get the BSEE and THEN figure out the next step. Don't do it because of what any one thinks about what title you currently hold or what they might think about what you will hold or how much money it costs or will pay you back. Do it for yourself, for your benefit and growth as an individual because this is what you want more than almost anything else. You will learn a lot more about yourself than being just an electrical engineer. There is no down side to that.

 

[kingpb]

As an installer I would prefer if all engineers had years of practical field experience as an installer. Then the "looked good on paper" line wouldn't get used so often in the field. Now before all of my engineering friends here on this forum get annoyed that's not a slight towards engineers, it's just that how can someone who never worked in the field installing things really design something and make it the simplest and best possible installation?

I couldn't agree more, that's why I don't connect devices or light fixtures with pretty lines, or use tick marks. I just give you the circuit number. The Contractor knows best, based on actual field conditions, on how to accomplish the task. The only time I give installtion details is when it needs to be a certain way to meet some specific requirement.

Engineers and Contractors need to work as a team not as combatants.

 

[rr]

As an installer I would prefer if all engineers had years of practical field experience as an installer. Then the "looked good on paper" line wouldn't get used so often in the field. Now before all of my engineering friends here on this forum get annoyed that's not a slight towards engineers, it's just that how can someone who never worked in the field installing things really design something and make it the simplest and best possible installation?

And I wish installers would learn how to complete an accurate as-built. Not to mention complete a panel schedule label accurately.

With that being said, it does help to have engineers out in the field to see what's being installed and how it's being done. But remember, the drawings are "diagramatic" only. Engineers realize that Electricans will never install equipment exactly as planned by their drawings. There is no way to forsee certain situations that could arise in the field.

Engineers and Contractors need to work as a team not as combatants.

I agree. But it's a two way street. I have great relationships with some EC's. Not so great with others. Why? It depends on what kind of RFI's I get and the price of material/labor.

 

[Lady Engineer]

Actually, if you have an NCEES council record, as I do, all you have to do is fill out the first part of the application, and have NCEES send them a copy of your records, and of coarse pay the fee. Really quite painless.

That's if you are transferring your license from another state. I'm talking about when start from stratch. I don't have my license yet, but the application for candidacy isn't as easy as it looks. I've done it, believe me, and they are not kind here.

Lady

 

[Lady Engineer]

I get annoyed with people who say things like infinity has said, because I've seen some really shotty work in the field as well. It's like me telling him/her, how can you install the work , when haven't went to school to learn electrical theory. That's not cool...it's degrading someone's skill.

I would never say that....I've worked in the field, along side an EC pulling wires and installing panels, and I agree it does work both ways.

Sorry...off my soap box. I just hate that type of attitude, on either side. Just doesn't belong in this field. It's about working together.

Lady

P.S. Refer to my Quote of the day

 

[infinity]

With that being said, it does help to have engineers out in the field to see what's being installed and how it's being done. But remember, the drawings are "diagramatic" only. Engineers realize that Electricans will never install equipment exactly as planned by their drawings. There is no way to forsee certain situations that could arise in the field.

A point well taken. But an example would be on a large project many times the engineers from all of the mechanical trades will get together and do coordination. So far so good, the guy designing the ductwork be a x' xx" height and the conduits will be under/over etc. The problem with this is that the guy designing the conduit runs has never run a piece of pipe in his/her life. The installer is handed a coordination drawing drawn by someone with zero practical experience.

The point that I was trying to make is that the guy in the OP who wanted to go from the field to the job of an EE is the guy that an installer would most want to work with. Field experience for the EE is invaluable for the guy doing the installation.

 

[CarRamrod]

New Engineer

New Engineer

A new grad's thoughts:

I probably could have done grad studies, but the truth is, I was more than happy to try something different than going to more school. I am learning lots at my new job, and they pay me every couple weeks, unlike grad studies. But that's not an issue for you, apparently.

I think an EE with your experience would be a great asset for a smart company. I am just starting out and I am already running into issues where I just don't know what I don't know, and some field experience would be very handy for some issues.

Keep in mind, however, that going to school is likely more work than a full-time job, although it's more flexible. And that the stuff you learn in school has little to do with being an electrician.

I also think that if you're not getting all that you want out of the job you've got, going back to school is a great idea. I know that my last year I was learning all kinds of cool stuff, which was nice, because it seems like they spent the first three years getting the theory out of the way. Plus you could be like the electrical guru for all the young guys and girls in your program.

-Ron B.

 

[jjs]

Before you spend 75K on college you need to determine what you expect to get out of it. If you simply want to design electrical systems and never want to own your own firm, you do not need to be a PE, which means you don't necessarily need a college degree.

If you can find a place that will take you and will teach you design work you may be able to start designing much sooner. You would need to know drafting in order to take this route. You could take night classes at a junior college/tech school for drafting. Once you are proficient in drafting then you could apply at the engineering firms as a designer/drafter. With your past experience of installation you should be able to catch on rather fast and get more responsibility. Piping design for building systems seems to always be done by the liberal arts grad. Only know of one PE guy that does plumbing in the Chicago area. (Good thing this is an electrical board so I wont get every PE plumbing guy writing in telling me i am crazy.)

If you go to college you will be forced to take a lot of classes that have nothing to do with EE. Especially the first 2 years. And I am not talking about the calculus that you will seldom use in this profession, but more about the Psychology, History, etc. classes that you have to get through. Yeah I know they make you more well rounded (but I eat plenty of Doritos now to make me more well rounded).

My whole point is that you have to figure out exactly what your goal is. It may or may not require a PE and/or a college education to accomplish. In the chicago area the Electric Association offers classes on electrical theory and drafting that would be helpful. 5 years of experience in real design is really worth more than the college education (and the 75K of college expense, plus the 5 years worth of salary that you lost) if you don't need to be a PE.

If you do want to be a PE. Definitely do the EIT test in college. I felt so sorry for those people that took the PE test on Friday and had to go back on Saturday to take the FE/EIT. My backside was so sore from the bad chairs that they provided that I doubt I could have sat for the second days test. Take a pillow with to sit on. Clear packing tape to put over the plywood table to make it smooth is good also.

I don't know how you would ever make up the 75K for college plus 5 years salary in your lifetime. Electricians in this area make as much as many engineers. And you wont have any engineering experience so you wont start out at top pay. You may just want to work 5 more years as an EC and retire to the bahamas early. They probably let anybody do engineering down there. Although you probably would not be able to handle the unsafe conditions you would run across in a third world country.

I guess I better stop ranting. Somebody else may have something actually important to say.

 

[jjs]

The problem with this is that the guy designing the conduit runs has never run a piece of pipe in his/her life. The installer is handed a coordination drawing drawn by someone with zero practical experience.

I won't comment on how often we see "value engineering" from the contractor that does not meet code. They sell the owner on the fact that they can save thousands of dollars. They forget the fact that it won't meet code. But this is not really what this thread is about. So I wont comment on it.

 

[jjs]

Hello all.

I'm considering going for my BSEE and then MSEE which I can get within the next 5 years. I'll be 42 by the time I finally get it and it will cost me about 75K dollars total. I'm make a decent living as an electrician now but really want to go for this.

My question is do you engineers out there feel it's worth the effort. Taking into consideration my age, etc...?

All opinions welcomed.

Thanks.

One last thought. If you want to design electrical systems for buildings, then you may want to look into an ARCHITECTURAL ENGINEERING degree. They have design specialties under that such as electrical, mechanical, structural, etc. There were only 5 that offered it when I got mine, but there are more now. www.MSOE.edu has such a program. Many of the classes are taught by professionals that work in the field you are studying when you get into the junior and senior level classes.

 

[Lady Engineer]

jjs, there are 13 Abet accredited programs now in the country who have AE, I went to Penn State, and they have it. I have an AE degree, and I love it.

I didn't know MSO had one...wow. That's good to know! :razz:

Lady

 

[rcwilson]

Electrical Engineers design more than just buildings. In a few years the present shortage of experienced engineers to design industrial and utility facilities like power plants, substations, refineries, food processing plants, manufacturing plants, transmission lines, water treatment plants and other facilites will be much worse. Almost all of the A&E or Design/Build EPC firms doing this work would jump at the chance to hire someone with practical experience.

I studied for my MSEE, and have a PE, both helped me in my career, becasue I was able to go to a university that had some good MSEE courses in my area of Power Engineering. I recommend looking closely at the classes to make sure the EE program teaches what you want: is it computer programming, solidstate circuit design, or is it power and industrial engineering? Good Luck!

 

[Anon]

Sour grapes - Take it "with a grain of salt" but as an EE, PE and manager with 28 years of experience, I only make 10 percent more than non-degreed non-PE non-management staff with the same years of experience. And a bit more respect. Hardly seems worth it! But I am only one example. Glass ceiling? I learned 90 percent of what I need to know on the job, not at school. I'm not sure that I would do it again. And I wish I had your experience as an electrician. Best of luck to you!

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Bob,

In a few years the present shortage of experienced engineers to design industrial and utility facilities like power plants, substations, refineries, food processing plants, manufacturing plants, transmission lines, water treatment plants and other facilites will be much worse.

This shortage is getting worse and one of the reasons is the lack of classes that cover this type of work. My son is a senior EE student and his university only offers 2 three hour classes that are real power engineering classes. I have been told that there are less than 10 schools in the US that offer a real EE power engineering program...if this doesn't change soon there will be a lot more of our engineering being done in India.
Those of you who think it is hard dealing with engineers now just wait until the design and drawings are comming from India.
Don

 

[kingpb]

No offense intended for the AE's out there who did pass the PE, because there are BSEE's who can't pass it either. However, I have worked with many good AE's that could never pass the PE because the test is not geared toward 480V systems and below. The test is electrical theory which you will not get in AE course work. Many of the Master's programs will offer more power courses. I doubt you will be relocating to do this, so you will have to pick from the best choices you have locally. My personal choice is I don't want to be associated with anything "Architectural".

 

[foqnc]

Just my 2 cents worth...

Just my 2 cents worth...

I went through my apprenticeship in England. 4 years, plus I stayed with the company 3 years after qualifying as an electrician. I had 5 years of college (1 day a week, 13hrs) during and after my apprenticeship. I worked for my next company for 2 years before I decided too move to America. The company I work for now hired me because of my experience in the field more than my college education. My college education in England, by immigration, was equivalent to 3 years of a degree over here, and every 3 years work experience counted for 1 year of college. I now design the electrical systems for any new machines we build, plus I get to go out and troubleshoot machines that have problems.
I have used maybe 20% of what I learned in College, the rest has been out in the field. I not trying to bad mouth college or college education, but me and college didn?t agree (I still have never used calculus)
Good Luck on what you decide

 

[edamico11]

Quality of life

Quality of life

Dexie 123, I am an BSEE (15 years) and started my career as an electricians helper (3 years) as I worked towards my degree. I can share with you only this. I have nothing but respect for Electrians however the ones I know (mostly over 40) all have pain and try to run crews rather then run wire. I myself (just 40) can feel the begining of the end. I do mostly work but can go into the field anytime I like (for some excersize) + decent salary, medical, 401K, profit sharing and 4 weeks off. I can spend more time with my family not worrying about getting my next job, will that homeowner pay me etc. I have a passion for it, always did, so the bad parts, ( hours of design, dealing with clients and bosses, MSEE's and PE's (only kidding) etc. can get routine. So all that said go for it if that is what you want to do, don't be afraid of the outcome.