Electrical fire

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hbiss

hbiss

EC, New York NEC: 2017
Location
Little Falls, New York NEC: 2017
Occupation
EC
There was a house fire locally here a couple of weeks ago where the cause was called electrical. Today I'm hearing that the cause was determined to be the USB charger within a recliner. Not sure if the occupant of the basement apartment, who was 26 and lost his life, had anything plugged into the charger ports at the time. Nothing about smoke alarms either. Occupant was a volunteer fireman, fire broke out while he was sleeping.

-Hal
 
hbiss said:
There was a house fire locally here a couple of weeks ago where the cause was called electrical. Today I'm hearing that the cause was determined to be the USB charger within a recliner. Not sure if the occupant of the basement apartment, who was 26 and lost his life, had anything plugged into the charger ports at the time. Nothing about smoke alarms either. Occupant was a volunteer fireman, fire broke out while he was sleeping.

-Hal
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We recently replaced some of our 20-year old living room furniture. Since I have mobility issues, my wife suggested I look into one of those recliners that can help you stand. I passed, same with all the other nifty gadgets sofas and chairs are getting supplied with these days. With moving parts, it's a question of when, not if, they will break. With electrical ones...well, you've found the perfect, if tragic, illustration of my disinclination to accept them.
 
There have been issues with some non-OEM chargers failing and resulting in a fires. Often those are not tested and listed products. I wonder what was installed by the furniture manufacturer?
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There have been issues with some non-OEM chargers failing and resulting in a fires. Often those are not tested and listed products. I wonder what was installed by the furniture manufacturer?
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I prefer not to find out the hard way.
 
My wifes charger is quite a sparky s.o.b. when you plug it in... meanwhile my collection of ancient three ways, timers and splitters in the christmas lite box is starting to scare me.
 
hbiss said:
Today I'm hearing that the cause was determined to be the USB charger within a recliner.
-Hal
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Greedy accident attorney's might just find that recliner supplier, and bring the whole food chain down for criminal violation of NFPA-70 110.3(C) as adopted in North American territories.

If enough of these products hazard get prosecuted, Amazon might notice, and use better filters for unlisted equipment sold in US markets.

If online Smart bulbs & LED fixture suppliers sold UL listed & FCC tested products for Radio noise, my clients might stop removing the AFCI breakers after I leave their premises.
 
I’m unclear whether the “USB charger within the recliner” is part of the recliner, or some independent charging device left in the chair by the resident (and if it’s like my TV remote, ended up down in the guts somewhere)?
 
ramsy said:
Greedy accident attorney's might just find that recliner supplier, and bring the whole food chain down for criminal violation of NFPA-70 110.3(C) as adopted in North American territories.

If enough of these products hazard get prosecuted, Amazon might notice, and use better filters for unlisted equipment sold in US markets.

If online Smart bulbs & LED fixture suppliers sold UL listed & FCC tested products for Radio noise, my clients might stop removing the AFCI breakers after I leave their premises.
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The NEC does not apply to a product like that.

Also 110.3(C) does not set any requirement for any type of product or equipment. It just sets the requirement for the organizations that listed equipment.
 
retirede said:
I’m unclear whether the “USB charger within the recliner” is part of the recliner, or some independent charging device left in the chair by the resident (and if it’s like my TV remote, ended up down in the guts somewhere)?
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Recliners these days have all kinds of electrical features from motors to move them to heating and message to USB charging ports. Charging ports are the most common.

Power Lift II Slate Recliner | Bob's Discount Furniture

Power lift recliner with heat and massage capabilities
www.mybobs.com www.mybobs.com

-Hal
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
The NEC does not apply to a product like that.

Also 110.3(C) does not set any requirement for any type of product or equipment. It just sets the requirement for the organizations that listed equipment.
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If local adoption is required before prosecuting a lack of compliance with a safety standard, like UL 962A standard for powered furniture, there are several ways to do this.

AHJ's may prefer other codes that cite adoption of safety standards for consumer products like household furniture, but there is also the argument for considering powered furniture an appliance.

422.6 Listing Required. All appliances operating at 50 volts or more shall be listed.

The scope of NEC 422.1 that "covers electrical appliances used in any occupancy." is sufficiently broad that is does not exclude powered furniture as an appliance, per NEC 90.7 "specific items" requiring approval.

90.7 For specific items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code, examinations for safety made under standard conditions provide a basis for approval..

UL 962A
FURNITURE POWER DISTRIBUTION UNITS (IYNC)
Use And Installation
This category covers cord-and-plug-connected furniture power distribution units rated 250 V ac or less, 20 A ac or less, intended for indoor use when secured to a furnishing...
..The furniture power distribution unit may be provided with USB (Universal Serial Bus) charging outlets and LED lighting when three or more receptacle outlets are provided...
REQUIREMENTS
The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is UL 962A, ‘‘Furniture Power Distribution Units.’’...
 
Not sure the level of NEC supervision of a listed product is or should be. It would seem that furniture with integrated power would need to be Listed (UL or otherwise) and that should limit NEC requirement and also then kind of indemnifies the electrician, and his installation. Can't stop people from connecting electrical products after the electrician leaves the premises.
Fire might generate additional labeling and manual instructions for such furniture, also lawyers pocket enrichment.
 
I can't remember any time that I took out a permit and called an electrician to plug in my recliner when my wife had me relocating furniture.
 
jim dungar said:
I can't remember any time that I took out a permit and called an electrician to plug in my recliner when my wife had me relocating furniture.
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Yes, I was wondering exactly how enforcement would be accomplished. I'd guess it's just an "out" for the insurance companies. After all, that's how the NFPA got its start, as a creation of the insurance companies.
 
ramsy said:
If local adoption is required before prosecuting a lack of compliance with a safety standard, like UL 962A standard for powered furniture, there are several ways to do this.

AHJ's may prefer other codes that cite adoption of safety standards for consumer products like household furniture, but there is also the argument for considering powered furniture an appliance.

422.6 Listing Required. All appliances operating at 50 volts or more shall be listed.

The scope of NEC 422.1 that "covers electrical appliances used in any occupancy." is sufficiently broad that is does not exclude powered furniture as an appliance, per NEC 90.7 "specific items" requiring approval.

90.7 For specific items of equipment and materials referred to in this Code, examinations for safety made under standard conditions provide a basis for approval..

UL 962A
FURNITURE POWER DISTRIBUTION UNITS (IYNC)
Use And Installation
This category covers cord-and-plug-connected furniture power distribution units rated 250 V ac or less, 20 A ac or less, intended for indoor use when secured to a furnishing...
..The furniture power distribution unit may be provided with USB (Universal Serial Bus) charging outlets and LED lighting when three or more receptacle outlets are provided...
REQUIREMENTS
The basic standard used to investigate products in this category is UL 962A, ‘‘Furniture Power Distribution Units.’’...
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It is not listed as an appliance and there is nothing in the NEC that can be cited to require the use of listed furniture. There just is nothing that, in general, requires the use of listed products in a home.
 
gadfly56 said:
Yes, I was wondering exactly how enforcement would be accomplished. I'd guess it's just an "out" for the insurance companies. After all, that's how the NFPA got its start, as a creation of the insurance companies.
Click to expand...
There is no "out" for the insurance company, unless your policy would specifically require the use of listed equipment. I have never seen that in a dwelling unit fire insurance policy.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There is no "out" for the insurance company, unless your policy would specifically require the use of listed equipment. I have never seen that in a dwelling unit fire insurance policy.
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Use of unlisted equipment is "unlawful" if your jurisdiction has adopted the NEC. Insurance companies typically have clauses that void coverage if your loss is caused by your committing an unlawful act.
 
gadfly56 said:
Use of unlisted equipment is "unlawful" if your jurisdiction has adopted the NEC. Insurance companies typically have clauses that void coverage if your loss is caused by your committing an unlawful act.
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Which part of the NEC requires cord and plug connected items to be Listed?

In general, the NEC requires items to be approved by the AHJ but not always listed. How many recliners are installed, by the permit holder, at the time the AHJ performs their inspection?
 
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