electrical permit

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pgordon

pgordon

Senior Member
Location
Maine
Occupation
Electrician
I am the licensed holder for a Massachusetts Electrical Contractor.
As per state law ,I am a principal within the company (vice President)
I pull all the permits for the Design Build Group in our company .
I am getting push back from the service dept. on permit pulling , saying
"most service work does not require a wiring permit". I strongly disagree .

Would guys consider this a fair statement ? Your thoughts ?

An Electrical Permit is required for work that involves installing, relocating, repairing, or maintaining any electrical wiring or device designed for conducting, consuming or converting electrical current.
 
Most places if the work is only repairing/replacing components with similar/same as original components a permit is not necessary, but you need to see what actual AHJ requirements are.

To take this to extremes one could need a permit to change light bulbs.
 
Statutes are different everywhere -- The AHJ can clearly define an answer -- we've had this discussion before look in the archives
 
The one thing about having a permit, is that you've had a second set of eye's on your project. Sure doesn't hurt you, if it goes to court, to have a signed off permit.
 
cowboyjwc said:
The one thing about having a permit, is that you've had a second set of eye's on your project. Sure doesn't hurt you, if it goes to court, to have a signed off permit.
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Well to be a little nit picky - the inspection puts a second set of eyes on the project:p Some places could require a permit, but may not necessarily perform an inspection on every permit.
 
kwired said:
Well to be a little nit picky - the inspection puts a second set of eyes on the project:p Some places could require a permit, but may not necessarily perform an inspection on every permit.
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"Some places", here if it requires a permit, it requires an inspection. If your inspector isn't going to do his job, then there is no reason for a permit. An inspector who doesn't look at your work isn't doing you, or him self, any favors.
 
cowboyjwc said:
"Some places", here if it requires a permit, it requires an inspection. If your inspector isn't going to do his job, then there is no reason for a permit. An inspector who doesn't look at your work isn't doing you, or him self, any favors.
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Well it is not so common with electrical work but around these parts building permits are issued - with no building inspection. This is more for zoning and use issues more then anything. They want to make sure you are not starting some operation the neighbors will not like any environmental effects you create, as well as get on board early with valuations for property taxes. Wiring permits are from completely different organization, and they do inspect when there is a permit.
 
kwired said:
Well it is not so common with electrical work but around these parts building permits are issued - with no building inspection. This is more for zoning and use issues more then anything. They want to make sure you are not starting some operation the neighbors will not like any environmental effects you create, as well as get on board early with valuations for property taxes. Wiring permits are from completely different organization, and they do inspect when there is a permit.
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In our country we have heard of such things as this. :happyyes:
 
pgordon said:
I am the licensed holder for a Massachusetts Electrical Contractor.
As per state law ,I am a principal within the company (vice President)
I pull all the permits for the Design Build Group in our company .
I am getting push back from the service dept. on permit pulling , saying
"most service work does not require a wiring permit". I strongly disagree .

Would guys consider this a fair statement ? Your thoughts ?

An Electrical Permit is required for work that involves installing, relocating, repairing, or maintaining any electrical wiring or device designed for conducting, consuming or converting electrical current.
Click to expand...

Mass guy here and many years in 'service'.

They are wishful thinking, make a few calls to the building departments in the local cities or towns

In our state the rule would be MGL Chapter 143 Section 3L

Here is the some of it.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter143/Section3L

No person shall install for hire any electrical wiring or fixtures subject to this section without first or within five days after commencing the work giving notice to the inspector of wires appointed pursuant to the provisions of section thirty-two of chapter one hundred and sixty-six. Said notice shall be given by mailing or delivering a permit application form prepared by the board, to said inspector. Any person failing to give such notice shall be punished by a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars. This section shall be enforced by the inspector of wires within his jurisdiction and the state examiners of electricians.
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In my opinion if they are billing for material they must be installing it and therefore the law requires a permit.


Now that said, we don't pull a permit for everything either, no one does. We could not remain competitive if we did permits and inspections for every replaced duplex, or burned up splice etc. In some areas where we do a lot of work we will pull a yearly maintenance permit that covers repairs only. Any new work would require a permit for that specific work.
 
iwire said:
Now that said, we don't pull a permit for everything either, no one does. We could not remain competitive if we did permits and inspections for every replaced duplex, or burned up splice etc. In some areas where we do a lot of work we will pull a yearly maintenance permit that covers repairs only. Any new work would require a permit for that specific work.
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Are you supposed to pull permits for such maintenance type tasks where you are only repairing/replacing with equivalent components? If so do you (by law) need to pull permits for tasks such as lamp replacement?
 
kwired said:
Are you supposed to pull permits for such maintenance type tasks where you are only repairing/replacing with equivalent components? If so do you (by law) need to pull permits for tasks such as lamp replacement?
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I posted the state law.

If you are billing for parts it is hard for me to believe they are not being installed.

That said each of our cities and towns is different and while some really don't want to be bothered with simple service jobs others will bust people on the smallest things. It would be nice if it was consistent but it's not.

Fire alarm work here is even worse, here many fire departments directly monitor commercial fires alarm systems so if I need to work on a system I have to contact the FD to prevent them from responding to an alarm I cause.

In some towns I need to provide at least 24 hours notice and pull a permit before I can even troubleshoot a system.

In another area I have an ID card they issued me that allows me to just call them and tell them I am working on a system.

Another town I have to drive to the FD, pick up a key leaving a license as collateral and then drive to the site, use the key to open a radio transmitter and disconnect it before working on the system.

Some of the FDs will only respond to 'alarms', others will respond at slow speed to troubles and supervisory conditions so if you try to work on the system they will know as soon as you cause any trouble condition.

It's loads of fun. :happysad:
 
Borderline ridiculous in State jurisdictions here (local enforcement is different).
State electrical inspectors can not go on site unless they have a permit so you can openly wire an entire building with no inspection as long as you already have service. Inspections are required to obtain service.
A few E/Cs will pull permits on jobs from a liability standpoint and in those areas that have building inspection (all counties do not), the building inspector requires electrical permits be obtained on new work.
 
iwire said:
I posted the state law.

If you are billing for parts it is hard for me to believe they are not being installed.

That said each of our cities and towns is different and while some really don't want to be bothered with simple service jobs others will bust people on the smallest things. It would be nice if it was consistent but it's not.

Fire alarm work here is even worse, here many fire departments directly monitor commercial fires alarm systems so if I need to work on a system I have to contact the FD to prevent them from responding to an alarm I cause.

In some towns I need to provide at least 24 hours notice and pull a permit before I can even troubleshoot a system.

In another area I have an ID card they issued me that allows me to just call them and tell them I am working on a system.

Another town I have to drive to the FD, pick up a key leaving a license as collateral and then drive to the site, use the key to open a radio transmitter and disconnect it before working on the system.

Some of the FDs will only respond to 'alarms', others will respond at slow speed to troubles and supervisory conditions so if you try to work on the system they will know as soon as you cause any trouble condition.

It's loads of fun. :happysad:
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That is too bad, and does sound ridiculous.

As far as selling parts, I do on occasion sell parts to people but no installation labor. Being in rural area and having farmers with industrial like equipment that they are not going to find at a local hardware store (there is no electrical supply house nearby), means they will be calling local electricians if they need something.
 
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