Electrical room

[hhsting]

I have bar tenant space in hotel 1st floor which branch circuits are fed from electrical room. NEC 2017 section 240.24(B) branch circuit must be ready access to its occupant. So they are giving unrestricted access to the tenant to electrical room on hallway of 1st floor building which houses panelboards and transformer.

I thought electrical room are accessible only to qualified people. Where in NEC 2017 it says electrical rooms are accessible to qualified people and would tenant be considered qualified?

 

[infinity]

I thought electrical room are accessible only to qualified people. Where in NEC 2017 it says electrical rooms are accessible to qualified people and would tenant be considered qualified?

It doesn't. The term "electrical room" is not in the NEC.

 

[hhsting]

It doesn't. The term "electrical room" is not in the NEC.

So then tenant are allowed in electrical room and nothing in NEC can stop it? But the room has electrical equipment. Their has to be something about qualified people access to the room?

 

[roger]

You're talking about a hotel, read 240.24(B)(1)(2)

Roger

 

[hhsting]

You're talking about a hotel, read 240.24(B)(1)(2)

Roger

Right but the tenant is Not guest room or guest suites. Tenant is bar and does not fit definition of guest suites or guest room section 100.

 

[Fred B]

I have bar tenant space in hotel 1st floor which branch circuits are fed from electrical room. NEC 2017 section 240.24(B) branch circuit must be ready access to its occupant. So they are giving unrestricted access to the tenant to electrical room on hallway of 1st floor building which houses panelboards and transformer.

I thought electrical room are accessible only to qualified people. Where in NEC 2017 it says electrical rooms are accessible to qualified people and would tenant be considered qualified?

Those structures are usually have Maintenance personnel that are present that would eliminate the need for tenet to access. Thus meeting the requirements for supervision and 240.24(B)(1). Room can even be locked. Section only says accessible to "authorized management personnel".

 

[roger]

Right but the tenant is Not guest room or guest suites. Tenant is bar and does not fit definition of guest suites or guest room section 100.

Then that will be worked out with the hotels management and the businesses owners. The NEC doesn't say bar tenders or waitresses can't have access to the electrical equipment.

Roger

 

[Fred B]

Right but the tenant is Not guest room or guest suites. Tenant is bar and does not fit definition of guest suites or guest room section 100.

But does meet the added "multiple occupancy building" in 240,24(B)(1)(1)

 

[hhsting]

Those structures are usually have Maintenance personnel that are present that would eliminate the need for tenet to access. Thus meeting the requirements for supervision and 240.24(B)(1). Room can even be locked. Section only says accessible to "authorized management personnel".

240.24(B)(1) is for service and feeders what I have are branch circuit.

Then if you go to 240.24(B)(2) you have branch circuits but thats for guest suites and guest rooms Not for something like a bar.

So essentially branch circuits have to be ready access to the bar tenant based off of 240.24(B) their is no exception for under management

 

[hhsting]

But does meet the added "multiple occupancy building" in 240,24(B)(1)(1)

But I dont have feeders from electrical room I have branch circuits. 240.24(B)(1)(1) is for services and feeders. 240.24(B)(2) is for branch circuits and where is multi occupancy building 240.24(B)(2)? I dont see it

 

[augie47]

I think you are beating a dead horse.
"I thought electrical room are accessible only to qualified people." No such wording in the NEC

240.24(B)(1) & (B)(2) are "otherwise permitted" 240.23(B) says the occupant shall have ready access.
AS long as he has access to the OCP devices, all is compliant.

 

[electrofelon]

But I dont have feeders from electrical room I have branch circuits. 240.24(B)(1)(1) is for services and feeders. 240.24(B)(2) is for branch circuits and where is multi occupancy building 240.24(B)(2)? I dont see it

That is interesting, I never noticed the distinction between service and feeder overcurrent devices and branch circuit overcurrent devices. Anyway, just put note on plans saying tenant must have access to overcurrent devices, then move on....... Unless you are still contemplating the heart disease option

 

[infinity]

I've seen 4160 volt equipment with a label stating that it can be accessible only to qualified personnel but that wouldn't apply to this installation. There is nothing unsafe about accessing a panel with the cover on.

 

[Fred B]

But I dont have feeders from electrical room I have branch circuits. 240.24(B)(1)(1) is for services and feeders. 240.24(B)(2) is for branch circuits and where is multi occupancy building 240.24(B)(2)? I dont see it

If you feel it at issue and you think the bar has to have access you can demand that bar have it own panel located within the bar space. OSHA has restrictions related to the electrical room and specific voltage and above, requiring authorized and qualified personnel. Never realized your point that 240.24(B)(1) was only related to feeders.

 

[ActionDave]

If you feel it at issue and you think the bar has to have access you can demand that bar have it own panel

No he can't

 

[Fred B]

No he can't

He can't ask for it, or it can't be put there?

 

[hhsting]

He can't ask for it, or it can't be put there?

No not unless if its in NEC 2017

 

[don_resqcapt19]

So then tenant are allowed in electrical room and nothing in NEC can stop it? But the room has electrical equipment. Their has to be something about qualified people access to the room?

Why would there be any rule anywhere to prohibit access to a typical, under 600 volt, electrical room, unless it is of the very old design having bare, exposed, energized parts that you can walk up to and touch?
Are you suggesting that only electrically qualified people are permitted to operate breakers in an enclosed panelboard?

 

[hhsting]

Why would there be any rule anywhere to prohibit access to a typical, under 600 volt, electrical room, unless it is of the very old design having bare, exposed, energized parts that you can walk up to and touch?
Are you suggesting that only electrically qualified people are permitted to operate breakers in an enclosed panelboard?

I am not suggesting. I am asking is their any such rule in nec 2017 version.

As to why i dont know. I would imagine only qualified people be permitted in electrical room cause if their is no hazardous their could be one. It can also be very old install, exposed parts who knows what

 

[paulengr]

I am not suggesting. I am asking is their any such rule in nec 2017 version.

As to why i dont know. I would imagine only qualified people be permitted in electrical room cause if their is no hazardous their could be one. It can also be very old install, exposed parts who knows what

There is sort of a hint for “high” (medium) voltage but not low voltage. If this was the case you would be locked out of the electrical panel in your own house.

NEC does require locked access to unqualified/unauthorized personnel in the room for 1000 V or over. It’s ridiculous in general because non-electrical personnel are required to do lockout on equipment no matter what voltage it is if they work on it mechanically. Many plants have interpreted the rule very strictly…that it applies only to electrical enclosure SPACES (inside the enclosures) and put the “Danger High Voltage” signss on the equipment itself, not on the room door. This is vastly different from outdoor overhead substations where there are few guards or covers in the way.