Electricity 100

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mdshunk said:
Having said this, every once in a while I am admitted puzzled by an "electrician" who'll post about a set of 3-ways kicking his butt

I just heard of a licensed co-worker that called tech support over a dimming three way. He was trying to put a standard 3 way dimmer at each end of the circuit. :grin:

But this guy is always a perfect example of a license not meaning much.

I had him cut in a distribution panel, he had only four feeders to land on the pre-installed breakers 3 -225s and a 100.

There where three 4/0 feeders and one 3 AWG feeder, when I looked later I found he landed the 3s on a 225 and 4/0s on a 100. :mad:
 
iwire said:
I just heard of a licensed co-worker that called tech support over a dimming three way. He was trying to put a standard 3 way dimmer at each end of the circuit. :grin:

He might have spoken a language other that the eight or so that are provided with the instructions. :roll:
 
mdshunk said:
There is a quote that is generally credited to Confucious. "You know what you know and you don't know what you don't know. That is knowledge." I think some of these things that seem stupid to many of us are just a simple case of the person honestly not knowing and not that they're necessarily ignorant. Having said this, every once in a while I am admitted puzzled by an "electrician" who'll post about a set of 3-ways kicking his butt or about what size pipe to run certain conductors in. In those cases, some explanation does seem to be in order, even if not otherwise required. I can see an instrumentaion tech or a PLC guy not knowing these simple things, for instance.
I thought this website was designed for the electrician to learn more, not for the all knowing to brag and "show off" what they know. Maybe I'm in the wrong place, cus I still say there is no such thing as a dumb question.
 
POWER_PIG said:
Maybe I'm in the wrong place, cus I still say there is no such thing as a dumb question.
I want to agree with you, but I can't. Well, sorta I can. There are certainly "lazy questions". Questions so elementary that they are easily researched by one's self, but the lazy man decided to ask rather than learn for himself. Perhaps I feel this way because I am big on person industry, making your own keep, and self-learning on a continual basis. I would certainly qualify the lazy question as a dumb question because I have no respect for lazy people, so they might as well be dumb too. :smile:
 
POWER_PIG said:
I thought this website was designed for the electrician to learn more...
I have no idea. You might be right, now that I think about it. I always thought this forum was to increase the search engine rankings of the host site to sell more books and videos? Regardless, I stop in here ever day, nearly, simply because I enjoy it.
 
As for the lazy question, I have often seen a question asked and the response is a link to a site.

I have always wanted to be knowledgeable in my chosen profession and the many hobbies I have undertaken over the years. As I have noted previously I have been lucky because of the Library of the Congress is so close . With the advent of the web this researech has become sooooo much easier, I can now sit home and search what use to take me days and lots of dimes at the copy machines at the Library. Type in any question, and the answer is almost instantaneous often listing this site.
 
mdshunk said:
I have no idea. You might be right, now that I think about it. I always thought this forum was to increase the search engine rankings of the host site to sell more books and videos? Regardless, I stop in here ever day, nearly, simply because I enjoy it.

ROTFLMAO! You got it, I still like it in here anyways. (Wonder if your post gets editied or removed Marc)
 
brian john said:
As for the lazy question, I have often seen a question asked and the response is a link to a site.
Yeah, that's one of my pet peeves. It would be more helpful if the answer was typed out, and a reference to that site for expanded reading. Either that, or a more exact pointer to what on that site it is we're supposed to read. Joe T is famous for this, and I'm not really sure why he chooses to do that.
 
zog said:
ROTFLMAO! You got it, I still like it in here anyways. (Wonder if your post gets editied or removed Marc)
No, no that I know of. I'm the darling off all the moderators. I bring them coffee and donuts. ;)
 
Yeah,.. well I'm a no question should remain un-asked kind of guy,.....even that STUPID one about whether a switch is an outlet!!!:grin: Pretty sure I got sucked in on that foolishness ,..for like ,..10 days:rolleyes:

I was poking around looking for stuff on SDSs and I came across some posts from a guy named "bennie" this guy asked what at first seemed like simple/stupid questions ,..let me tell you some of the stupidest questions can lead to a whole new way of thinking about things ,..and that is the truth.......... I understand he was sick and I assume he has passed ..he had a great mind ,...peace bennie
 
POWER_PIG said:
So how is that a "dumb question"? I suppose you came squirting right out your mammy knowing it all?

Because electrons don't know anything they follow the laws of nature. That is why it was a dumb question. He wouldn't let it go he kept saying I don't understand how the ellectrons know how to go through the path of least resistants.....

Get it now?
 
POWER_PIG said:
I thought this website was designed for the electrician to learn more, not for the all knowing to brag and "show off" what they know. Maybe I'm in the wrong place, cus I still say there is no such thing as a dumb question.

Is your name airman Padilla?
 
Pierre C Belarge said:
In the area I work in (encompasses 4 counties - a fairly substantial territory, considering one of the counties is the first county north of NYC), I have seen what I consider a steady decline in the quality of work. The number of people who are performing this work who understand what they are doing is also steadily declining as well...maybe at just a little slower rate.

With that said, forget about KO seals and the like, but there are many times we are repeating our inspection for items such as location of devices/equipment and other code issues that are not even understood. This leads to the same statement that a lot of inspectors hear " when did they change that code?". Etc, etc, etc.

Basically what some of the ECs are doing is using the inspectors as job foremen, saving a buck. I was on a job yesterday where the two men were in their very early 20s. They were not well trained and could not even understand what I was asking for in the changes. I see more and more of this as the ECs try to compete for work.


There are other jobs I am on where the electricians -if that is what we are trying to decipher in this thread, are IMO, not really electricians. They are installers...who can mechanically pull wire, bang boxes and very little more. Then there are the guys who follow those installers, a little higher on the scale. Again trained only in the portion they are installing. If the job strays from the original plan, they are lost.

So, in answer to Brian's OP, I think the industry has a long, long, long way to climb to get out of the hole we have dug for ourselves. Until more people who can do something about it see this and try to help, it is only going to get worse.



On the brighter side, there are still men out there who are excellent in what they do and show tremendous amounts of pride in their work...thank the lord for those jobs, otherwise I would leave my position tomorrow.

Very well said Pierre.:smile:
 
mdshunk said:
I want to agree with you, but I can't. Well, sorta I can. There are certainly "lazy questions". Questions so elementary that they are easily researched by one's self, but the lazy man decided to ask rather than learn for himself. Perhaps I feel this way because I am big on person industry, making your own keep, and self-learning on a continual basis. I would certainly qualify the lazy question as a dumb question because I have no respect for lazy people, so they might as well be dumb too. :smile:
The way you put it, I do agree with ya'll.......A lazy question = a dumb question. I respect your views/teachings Marc, now scuse me while I go beat the arrogance out of that Bikeindy dude:)
 
Around here, I see a lack of appreticeship training. We have no requirement for it. There is also only a few jurisdictions that require continuing education for Masters.

As an example - my helper is a second-year apprentice. This is his second company to work for. And he worked for 2 other guys here (neither went through an appreticeship) before working with me.
He has been with me for about 9 months or so, and I still sometimes need to ask, "Who the *&%#@ showed/told you to do it like that?!?" It is amazing the things people have shown him.

It is something that compounds over time. For this 1 guy, there are other who get taught the wrong way, or not taught some things at all - and never get shown better.

I was taught some funky stuff as a helper - but I didn't know better until I was paired with someone who un-trained the bad stuff and trained to good stuff in. (As he used to put it). BTW, wherever you are Dave, thank you.



I just helped a guy who has been in the trade 8 years. I had to get out my NEC and show him table 310-16, explain what it was, and how to use it!
He had been taught by rote, and has never had anyone show him right.

Brian, I understand your frustration, but at least some people come here and try to learn better. Maybe the questions are "Electric 101", but I think we should try to encourage learning the basics.
 
bikeindy said:
Bacon, I love bacon and pork chops. But what I rally like is a pig roast.
Me too! I specially love me some chops....rally I do!:D
Im not sure how you decided that I was confused about the very basic theory of electrons and how they "flow" I learned that in Jr. high school physics 101 in 1979 for cryin' out loud! Im just saying if a person really wants to learn the trade, and understand the mechanics behind the theory, I will give an extra effort to help explain what I can without making the person feel like a total dumbass........If your the helper that can't even keep your pants pulled up and always complaining about how crappy this trade is, and the pay is bad and the work is hard and blah blah blah,,,,then you get nothing in the way of training from me cept maybe how to kick a shovel!

Paul I. Gordon

aka: PIG
 
Ah as the plot thickens I better get the BBQ sauce ready for them ribs..and grill pork chops are the bomb..

Edited: our state is working on the requirments and how to incorporate them..
 
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