Electrocution

[charlie b]

Re: Electrocution

Originally posted by iwire:To be perfectly frank it seems that making a new rule is just a public relations move to make it look like something has been done to fix the problem when really the problem has been lack of enforcement and supervision.

With regret, I must agree.

 

[celtic]

Re: Electrocution

Originally posted by jim dungar:

If the NM cable had been kept in the middle of the stud, per the NEC, then a 1-1/8" drywall screw would not have penetrated the cable.

Originally posted by pierre:
Did you notice that the wiring for this situation was within the webbing side of the metal studs.

Wouldn't a CJ6 have keep the wire away from the stud?

Originally posted by pierre:
Like one poster mentioned, we can have a million regulations, that does not solve the problem of poor workmanship/enforcement.

Am I reading that 110.12 *might* become enforcable?


Don't get me wrong - I am not trying to defend the GC, subs, or Inspectors..what happened to that fellow was tragic. This will play out in a very long court case ("..no one has taken responsibility...")...as no one will ever take responsibility - even after a jury makes a decision (the stench of appeal is already in the air).

I do not believe the charge will be murder - murder is generally defined as:
-such a crime committed purposely, knowingly, and recklessly with extreme indifference to human life or during the course of a serious felony

More likely it will be a case of manslaughter and negligence (of various degrees: involuntary, gross, etc).
Manslaughter is defined as:
- ...resulting from the failure to perform a legal duty expressly required to safeguard human life...
(which is basically 90.1)

Negligence is defined as:
-failure to exercise the degree of care expected of a person of ordinary prudence in like circumstances in protecting others from a foreseeable and unreasonable risk of harm in a particular situation.


It is a shame that cost cutting methods have a higher priority on a jobsite than ensuring human life remains a LIFE.

I do not know what the answer is (metal boxes on metal studs, no metal studs and romex, bonding of metal studs, etc), but do we really think the "powers that be" will be able to re-write ANY of the codes in place(forget enforcing) based on this one person's unfortunate demise?
I am sure this has happened more than once before - but how many have we heard about? Some builders, GC's, subs would rather settle quietly out-of-court (and keep their names out of the daily news) and we never even hear about it.

It really is a shame.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Electrocution

I completely agree with that as well Bob. Lake COunty is certainly trying to put out a public image of concern and corrective action.

The code only requires the NM cable to be 1?" from the furring strip running parallel to the strip. This is usually acomplished with stand-offs. If the furring strip is only 1" this basically means the NM cable has no spacing "depth-wise". The cable is sandwiched between the block wall or insulation board and the drywall.

Here is a statement by a fitting manufacturer:

Bridgeport Fittings recently received UL listing for Steel Protector Strips that will provide protection of NM and low voltage cables in homes built with block wall and furring strips. They will be available mid-March.

These strips are the same thickness as steel plates ('kicker' plates) used on wood studs and furring strips as required by Article 300 and come in 3-foot lengths. Steel Protector Strips were displayed at IAEI metting in Cocoa Beach in October 2005.

 

[allenwayne]

Re: Electrocution

I posted 2 years ago in regards to something quite simular.In that case the report was getting shocked.I went to see what I could find and there was a family that spoke broken english but I got the gist.Everytime they touched the sliding glass door frame they got shocked.Thier 3 year old had gotten out of the pool was wet and grabbed the frame of the SGD and got knocked hard.I found 120 volts on the frame and the entire wall was energized.Foil faced vapor barrier.I called the GC and told him I thought I knew what was causing it and I wanted to cut the drywall above a 4 gang.He said do what you must .When I cut the drywall I found the extra kick plates the inspectors were requiring us to install had been crammed into a 3 wire and was energizing the wall,door and a window.Once removed it cleared.Just goes to show that some ideas of safety can create hazards.Thank god nobody was hurt past the point of a shock but I still think of that little girl and what could have been.

 

[bphgravity]

Re: Electrocution

Something tells me 300.4(B)(2) is going to become a very popular violation over the next several months...

NEW PRODUCT

Steel Protector Strip

Application:
? Provides physical protection in minimum depth walls for nonmetallic?sheath cables in accordance with 2005 National Electrical Code article 300.4 (B)(2) and other cables per articles 300.4 (D) and (E).
? Shields low voltage cables and similar cabling subjected to damage or hidden in shallow recessed walls.
? May be used in exposed or concealed locations.

Material:
? 733-PS, zinc electroplated .063? thick steel, 3-foot length
? 733-PSHD, hot-dipped galvanized .063? thick steel, 3-foot length

Certification:
? UL file E161206

 

[benaround]

Re: Electrocution

Why does it say that a screw was 'fired' into the stud?

Are there tools that'fire' drywall screws now?

 

[iwire]

Re: Electrocution

I have not seen one that 'fires' them in but the better screw guns with a self feeder for the screws go pretty quick with a 200 lb monkey pushing on it.

 

[aftershock]

Re: Electrocution

in my years of doing residential electrical work, I have found that the other subs dont give a rat's a$$ about the electrical.

Plumbers: Solder copper pipe near romex burning the sheathing,, then walk away never calling to attention to anyone

Sheetrock: Using roto zips to cut out boxes,, nicking the wire and in alot of cases cutting it and they dont care.

Cabinet Installs: Using 3 inch long screws to mount cabinets and in some cases penetrating the romex in the studs. Installing cabinets and seeing that the outlet is going to be halway in and out of the back edge and not bringing it to attention before securing the cabinet.

Others: Pulling wires out of switch boxes to hang stuff on while they work.

Electricians get **** on but when they need light or power then your a god.

[ February 25, 2006, 09:47 AM: Message edited by: aftershock ]

 

[macmikeman]

Re: Electrocution

All true and all sad.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Re: Electrocution

Originally posted by aftershock:
in my years of doing residential electrical work, I have found that the other subs dont give a rat's a$$ about the electrical.

Sheetrock: Using roto zips to cut out boxes,, nicking the wire and in alot of cases cutting it and they dont care.

Are there any rough-in box covers to prevent this?

Electricians get **** on but when they need light or power then your a god.

I say, we're gods even when they carry a genset!