Electroluminescent Pathway Lighting

[al hildenbrand]

Hal,

Mike made the comment:

It is the installation of this EL lamp that is up in the air. Since we are classified as a Class 1 Power Limited System with a max load of 120w. . .less than 2 amps max @ 220v/600hz

 

[peteo]

mjaco,
Welcome to the forum and thank you for presenting a new and fascinating product. :wink: I have watched (online) as several EU jurisdictions adpoted the photoluminescent paint for egress, which is of course a construction matter rather than electrical. This is why the UL 1994 standard references building standards (NFPA's abortive attempt at releasing ICBO literature, NFPA 5000 is referenced because one or two towns adopted it) and exit lights (UL 964?) reference NFPA 70, the electrical code.

Because we're all here to learn, I'm posting a couple articles found related to this technology in general, the first an informative look at the NYC statute and the other, a look at the written normal way ISO countries are expected to implement the painted egress markings. I'm going to miss the WAY OUT -> signs.
NYC:
http://www.buildings.com/Articles/detail.asp?ArticleID=2867
ISO:
http://www.safelincs.co.uk/page.php?xPage=bfc2.htm

I think Hal is trying to fit the product into a section of the NFPA because it is wiring on the building, as opposed to being a self contained item such as a lamp fixture. In which case, it would possibly fit into chapter 7, emergency systems. The scope statement says it applies to circuits and equipment intended for illumination, power, or both, to required facilities when the normal electrial supply or system is interrupted.

But the problem with trying to fit this into the code is that the NEC does not work here. The UL standard does not mention NFPA 70. It is an egress item, a building code issue which each jurisdiction will now need to interpret for themselves. As Iwire pointed out, it will be decided locally. In LA, for example, the LAFD approves electric gates and gets a key in case of earthquakes. It is their call, not the standards organization.

 

[iwire]

Your question was about Connecticuts electrical licensing requirements.

I don't see how the listing has anything to do with it.

I looked around at CTs rules and found a few things.


GENERAL STATUTES
OF
CONNECTICUT

CHAPTER 393*
ELECTRICIANS, PLUMBERS, SOLAR, HEATING, PIPING
AND COOLING CONTRACTORS AND JOURNEYMEN,
ELEVATOR AND FIRE PROTECTION SPRINKLER CRAFTSMEN,
IRRIGATION CONTRACTORS AND JOURNEYMEN, AND
GAS HEARTH INSTALLER CONTRACTORS AND JOURNEYMEN

Look at this definition and notice it applies 'As Used in this chapter'.

Sec. 20-330. Definitions. As used in this chapter:

(2) "Electrical work" means the installation, erection, maintenance, alteration or repair of any wire, cable, conduit, busway, raceway, support, insulator, conductor, appliance, apparatus, fixture or equipment that generates, transforms, transmits or uses electrical energy for light, heat, power or other purposes, but does not include low voltage wiring, not exceeding twenty-four volts, used within a lawn sprinkler system;

Understand that the only low voltage wiring it excludes has to do with lawn sprinkler systems.

Now look at this Section in the same Chapter.

Sec. 20-334. License or card of registration. Requirements. Suspension or revocation. (a) No person shall engage in, practice or offer to perform the work of any occupation subject to this chapter in this state unless such person has first obtained a license as provided in section 20-333, or possesses a card of registration from the Labor Department or the board and is subject to all of the regulations adopted under this chapter for the purpose of governing apprenticeship training, or has been issued a license for such particular work under this chapter prior to July 6, 1967.

I even found a Connecticut Landscape Lighting Fact Sheet that reminds homeowners that low voltage landscape lighting requires licensing and permits.

In my opinion you will need a CT licensed electrician to install your product in CT.

 

[mjaco]

mjaco,
Welcome to the forum and thank you for presenting a new and fascinating product.QUOTE]

Peteo, thanks for the welcome.

You have hit the nail on the head, it is a new product and actually the only one of its kind and no one is quite sure where it belongs since current codes and standards do not cover all its specifications as a single product.

I am definitely here to learn, most of what I am reading is new to me as this is my first dive into the code world. For that reason I appreciate all the help you guys are offering.

Are you aware that besides NYC that other states also have similar statutes in place although thier requirements have major differences.
1991 California code required systems for limited occupancies
2003 RI code for FP Exit Signs in Assemblies >300
2004 NYC code ? high rise office building stairwells mandating PL technology
2005 CT code requires FP Exit Signs ? 2006 law requiring Dept. Public Safety to write FP Path Marking code to be enforced by Jan. 1 2008

Here is a link to a temporary page that was put together for you guys. It has two presentations that we use and one is a version given to the AIA. http://www.e-lite.com/EMShidden.htm
More support documentation can be found here http://www.egressmarking.com/documents.html it is a little out of date as this product has been around in differant forms for years and the final version of the site and documentation is still a work in progress.

Assa Abloy has designed products around this technology and they are also very involved with the codes. http://www.liteguide.com/code_corner.html

There is enough content to hopefully keep you guys busy long enough for me to read through all the great info you are providing. I wish "legal" was offered as a foriegn language in school, looking back I would have taken that instead of Latin (ya Latin don't laugh)

Thanks again
Mike

 

[mjaco]

Bob,

There is no doubt that a Liscensed Contractor will be required. This is a commercial product for Hirise and large occupency buildings not the average home.

We are unclear if a Low Voltage Liscense will cover the installation of the output materials from the control unit. These materials will include the EL-LAMP, Plastic Track, Low Level Exit Signs,lamp connectors and 18awg wire.

This product is in no way a landscaping or architectural product, it is meant to save lives. It is a system designed to aid in the evacuation of a building during an emergency situation no matter what the ambient light conditions are. It can however be used for other applications.

I will look over the info you have provided. It is all usefull to me and I will review all that comes my way so keep it flowing. For now off to church and outside to enjoy the day with the kids.:grin:

"Talk" to you soon.
Mike

 

[al hildenbrand]

I'm heading out to sing in the choir, shortly, myself.

Mike,

The promo information you supplied indicates that the EL lamp is essentially a capacitor.

I have been wondering about installation splices to the lamp.

The promo info shows right angles, flat - on plane (not wrapped on inside or outside corners). How are flat angles done?

Are lengths and flat angles supplied by the manufacturer, or is this lamp field cut and spliced?

When there is a discontinuity in the lamp, does the installation require another homerun to the supply, or can one wire around the discountinuity. If one wires around the discontinuity, does the installer field apply lamp to wire splices?

The concern and question, to me, centers on splices in the lamp close to the power supply when the lamp is as long as it can be, by specification, that is, splices that have high currents. I realize you are describing the lamp as a less than 2 Amp load @ 220 Volt 600 Hz, but this near 2 Amp current at the feed end is "high" by comparison the the current at the far end of the lamp.

 

[iwire]

We are unclear if a Low Voltage Liscense will cover the installation of the output materials from the control unit. These materials will include the EL-LAMP, Plastic Track, Low Level Exit Signs,lamp connectors and 18awg wire.

No, the LV will not cover it, that info can be seen on the handout I linked to.

1)Limited electrical contractor?s
license (L-5)
The holder of this license may perform
only work limited to low voltage (25 volts
or less), alarm or signal work, audio and
sound systems. Two (2) years as a
properly licensed journeyperson or at
least four (4) years of equivalent
experience and training are required to
qualify for this license examination.

2. Limited electrical
journeyperson?s license (L-6)
The holder of this license may
perform only work limited to low
voltage, alarm or signal work, audio
and sound systems, and only while
employed by a contractor licensed
for such work. The voltage of the
system is not to exceed 25 volts or
five amperes, where such work
commences at an outlet receptacle
or connection previously installed by
a person holding the proper
electrical license. The requirements
to qualify for this license exam
include completion of a registered
apprenticeship program or at least
two (2) years of equivalent
experience and training.

 

[hbiss]

Since this has Class 1 outputs and requires field wiring between the power supply and the EL strips and signs, that wiring must be done by a licensed EC. A low voltage license will not do.

If you could manufacture a "factory assembly" consisting of the power supply, EL strips, signs AND factory made and listed connectorized cables THEN possibly this system could be installed by other than an EC.

-Hal

 

[mjaco]

Connections to the lamp are simple (see attached) with our connector.

Home runs are not required as a splice connection at the end of one lamp can be fed to the next run of lamp or daisy chained . You can have a combination of parallel and daisy chained in the circuit. If a redundant wire scheme is being used then extra care will need to be taken to assure that both ends of the circuit have power. In the event that the circuit is severed or damaged it may be possible to still illuminate to the point of damage when the redundant wiring mode is used.

In the event field repairs are needed we are working with UL as we plan on using a nickel silver staple to splice the lamp.

Getting the lamp to change directions is also easy. It is accomplished with some creative folding techniques that are outline in the installation manual. There are two ways the lamp can be folded. One is for continuos lighting like would be used for outlining an exit door. The second is the no light like what would be used to bypass an internal door that does not lead to an exit. Most of the creative bending would be used in retrofit applications. In new construction applications we are hoping to use the door frames designed by Assa Abloy http://www.liteguide.com/specify_life_safety.html which were designed for the EP1500 system.

I am trying to get a hold of our "webguy" so I can get the installation manual posted for all to read. I should have done it when I joined this forum.

Thanks again

Mike

 

[mjaco]

Updated Information

Updated Information

Gentleman I apologize for the delay.

The temporary webpage at http://www.e-lite.com/EMShidden.htm has been updated. I believe all the information you would need is now there including the installation manual and a couple links.

Please have a look and let me know if any of the advice I have received so far has changed. I am also looking for personal thoughts on the product if anyone has an opinion they would like to share.

Thanks again for all the support and advice. I am still reading through all the information that was presented and learnig a lot along the way.

Mike J

 

[petersonra]

2. Limited electrical
journeyperson?s license (L-6)
The holder of this license may
perform only work limited to low
voltage, alarm or signal work, audio
and sound systems, and only while
employed by a contractor licensed
for such work. The voltage of the
system is not to exceed 25 volts or
five amperes, where such work
commences at an outlet receptacle
or connection previously installed by
a person holding the proper
electrical license. The requirements
to qualify for this license exam
include completion of a registered
apprenticeship program or at least
two (2) years of equivalent
experience and training.

2 amps is less than 5 amps.

 

[hbiss]

And 220 volts is more than 25 volts.

I suppose we could mince words and say that the "or" in the phrase "The voltage of the system is not to exceed 25 volts or five amperes" should really be "and" or "at".

I believe the intent is to limit LV contractors to no more than 25 volts at no more than 2 amps.

-Hal

 

[iwire]

2 amps is less than 5 amps.

Thanks for pointing that out.

2. Limited electrical
journeyperson?s license (L-6)
The holder of this license may
perform only work limited to low
voltage, alarm or signal work, audio
and sound systems, and only while
employed by a contractor licensed
for such work. The voltage of the
system is not to exceed 25 volts or
five amperes, where such work
commences at an outlet receptacle
or connection previously installed by
a person holding the proper
electrical license. The requirements
to qualify for this license exam
include completion of a registered
apprenticeship program or at least
two (2) years of equivalent
experience and training.

Lighting is not alarm, signal work or audio
and sound systems.

To install power and lighting wiring in CT requires more than an LV ticket.

 

[mjaco]

Lighting is not alarm, signal work or audio
and sound systems.
To install power and lighting wiring in CT requires more than an LV ticket

When you put it that way it seems pretty straight forward.

I guess the difficulty we are having is that we consider the EL Material to be a "light bulb". Almost all the in betweens scream LV it is that damn 200vac that is throwing off the formula. Not to mention that "or" in the license desription that confused things.

Thanks for the input guys.

We have a code hearing on the 13th in Hartford, I will let you guys know how it goes. If anybody has an opinion we could use what ever insight we can get.

Have a Happy Easter.

Mike

 

[hbiss]

I guess the difficulty we are having is that we consider the EL Material to be a "light bulb".

It is, or at least it's "utilization equipment". But that's not the problem because I believe you could have that listed as a manufactured assembly like a lamp with a little work.

But, even if you are able to do that-

The problem is the wiring from the power supply to these "light bulbs". That wiring has to be Class 1 which means the wiring has to be installed by a licensed EC.

-Hal

 

[mjaco]

Well we had our meeting with the liscencing commitee on Friday. They heard our schpiel on the E-Lume-A-Path product. Thier questions and concerns were based more on safety than installation. They were not quick on answering the question what liscene would be required or which liscence could install which parts of the system. They are going to study the product and verify the wording of the liscensing regulations and get back to us.

Untill then it is business as usual. Again, thank you for all the help with the information you provided us. I will try to keep you up to date with the liscensing and code issues we are involved with.

Mike