electronic door lock

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Jim W in Tampa said:
best do some thinking if no power means unlocked. They kill power and walk in with guns. Not what i call good security at all
Yes if switching then do it on 120 side
most use power to unlock door
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Yea I couldnt believe than either , I questioned him about using a lock that was normally unlocked and requires power to lock . That seems backwards to me also. He said some places even use that as the only door lock , but some have back up batteries . If robbers pull the meter out the door unlocks . I think the reason they have to that type is if the power fails on the other type you cant open the door in emergency .
 
jetlag said:
The one he is doing now is a drop ceiling . The state is georgia , does any one know if a locksmith can run the low voltage to the lock, and or ,if a license electrician can do it , neither of which have a low voltage license . I am asking as far as the NEC and state is concerned , not the AHJ .
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jetlag said:
huh , Im asking if anyone sees a violation , if you dont see it what am I telling ?
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Just wondering:D post 4 & 8 then 15 & 18
 
jetlag said:
If you see a violation in post 4 ,8 , 15 or 18 then give the code reference , thats what I am tring to find out with OP
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jetlag said:
My son in law is a licensed lock smith . He had 3 questions for me but I didnt know the answers about electronic door locks

1 - The locks are 12/24 volt dc 300/150 ma , the lock mfg doesnt sell or recommend wire to use from the remote located transformer to the lock, what is the best to use .
2 - He is also wondering if he is in violation for runing the low voltage cable to the transformer mounted above the ceiling without having a low voltage license
3 - The transformer is plug and cord connected and has to have a 120 v circuit ran for the receipt . If a licensed electrician does that is the low voltage work also allowed under the electricians class 2 license .
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#1 No code violation. NEC only gets involved with type if plenum rated ceiling.
#2 Yes, he would be in violation of Georgia state law.
#3 cord and plug violation 400.8 (2)
As I posted violation of state law. class 1 and 2 do not include low voltage. Must have low voltage license also
 
ceb58 said:
#1 No code violation. NEC only gets involved with type if plenum rated ceiling.
#2 Yes, he would be in violation of Georgia state law.
#3 cord and plug violation 400.8 (2)
As I posted violation of state law. class 1 and 2 do not include low voltage. Must have low voltage license also
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OK , it seems we have it pinned down now

#1 The other posts seem to agree on 18/2 solid , and we knew about the
plenum
#2 So he does need a low voltage license , even though he is only runing a
short wire from door to above ceiling tile and pluging in a transformer
#3 I only ran the 120 circuits for him before he comes to install the locks and
I thought he meant cord and plug when he said he plugs in the tranny ,
but now know they are one piece trannys that plug in like an adapter.
His other question is if he is required to have a low voltage license , could I
cover the low voltage work with my license , it seems the answer is no.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
The license issue for Ga. i do not know but pretty much can bet his liability insurance will not cover him. Might do thousands of them and no problem but if one goes south he has serious problem.
Have him check into what license he needs, might be good investment.
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This very confusing because I dont believe the low voltage licence is enforced around here , to wire new houses we run the catv , door bell , secuity cams , and other things , even the smoke alarms contain the low volt interconnection wire . I dont know of an electrical contractor here that also has a low voltage license , or that calls in a low volt contractor to wire the house. Do all of you that do these things have a low voltage license ?
 
jetlag said:
This very confusing because I dont believe the low voltage licence is enforced around here , to wire new houses we run the catv , door bell , secuity cams , and other things , even the smoke alarms contain the low volt interconnection wire . I dont know of an electrical contractor here that also has a low voltage license , or that calls in a low volt contractor to wire the house. Do all of you that do these things have a low voltage license ?
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I went ahead and got grandfathered in when the LV license came out in Georgia. I don't remember ever needing it, but I've kept it up anyway.

I attended a meeting explaining the rules at that time. There seem to be a lot of loopholes (unless it's been changed since then).

Q&A's that I remember:

Can HVAC run their own t/stat wire? Yes because its associated with their equipment.

Can electrician run doorbell? yes.

Can electrician run phones? yes, but only up to the pbx.


I did some cabling for a computer network company a few years ago,some of these were new buildings and were permitted and inspected. They wanted to know if I had LV license and I did (they didn't). No one ever asked my license #, evidently if cabling was inspected was on house electricians permit.

And I let a guy buy burglar alarm equipment for a few years using my license #.


The LV license in Georgia started around the time that phone companies were losing their monopoly and worried about competetion, always seemed to me that their was a connection.
 
Thanks readydave 8

Thanks readydave 8

readydave8 said:
I went ahead and got grandfathered in when the LV license came out in Georgia. I don't remember ever needing it, but I've kept it up anyway.

I attended a meeting explaining the rules at that time. There seem to be a lot of loopholes (unless it's been changed since then).

Q&A's that I remember:

Can HVAC run their own t/stat wire? Yes because its associated with their equipment.

Can electrician run doorbell? yes.

Can electrician run phones? yes, but only up to the pbx.


I did some cabling for a computer network company a few years ago,some of these were new buildings and were permitted and inspected. They wanted to know if I had LV license and I did (they didn't). No one ever asked my license #, evidently if cabling was inspected was on house electricians permit.

And I let a guy buy burglar alarm equipment for a few years using my license #.


The LV license in Georgia started around the time that phone companies were losing their monopoly and worried about competetion, always seemed to me that their was a connection.
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That is very interesting and might save my son in law from having to obtain a low voltage license . If Havc can run t stat wire because it is associated with their equipment , should not a licenced , insured and bonded lock smith be allowed to run low voltage to his electronic lock ? :grin::grin:
 
jetlag said:
I am not even sure we are wiring these correctly , the lock opens when no power is supplied to it , it has panic button by the door to break the current for a timed period . The customers want to be able to lock the doors when they count the money with out leaving their work station . To accomplish this I put the 120 v power on three and four way switches so the tranny can be turned on from several locations . Is this a proper way or should a low voltage switch be installed at each location ?
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I have done a countless number of commercial access control system installs which were speced with "fail safe" locks (loose power and the door unlocks). This is always the case if they are Magnetic locks. These systems should always have a back up power supply in case of power failure. Egress should include a mechanical means (ie. panic bar) when using an electric strike. Motion and panic button if using magnetic locks. Also if the locks are fail safe with battery back up you have to include a means to unlock the door in case of a fire alarm. Usually a relay output form the fire equipment cabinet that breaks the power to the door lock.
With that being said, these type of systems that I have installed all were controlled through a "door control panel". The lock relay or output voltage, panic button, motion detector, fire alarm inputs, door dwell times etc. are connected and controled via the controller. Sounds to me like you are trying to re-invent the wheel here. Just purchase the appropriate "door control system" and wire in the controls as required. No need for 3 or 4 way switches to cut power to the transformer.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Also, as a side note.. We sub out the lock work to a locksmith and we perform all the electrical. No locksmith is going to be connecting to or wiring anything to my control panel. He installs the lock and I make the connections.
 
lefty08 said:
I have done a countless number of commercial access control system installs which were speced with "fail safe" locks (loose power and the door unlocks). This is always the case if they are Magnetic locks. These systems should always have a back up power supply in case of power failure. Egress should include a mechanical means (ie. panic bar) when using an electric strike. Motion and panic button if using magnetic locks. Also if the locks are fail safe with battery back up you have to include a means to unlock the door in case of a fire alarm. Usually a relay output form the fire equipment cabinet that breaks the power to the door lock.
With that being said, these type of systems that I have installed all were controlled through a "door control panel". The lock relay or output voltage, panic button, motion detector, fire alarm inputs, door dwell times etc. are connected and controled via the controller. Sounds to me like you are trying to re-invent the wheel here. Just purchase the appropriate "door control system" and wire in the controls as required. No need for 3 or 4 way switches to cut power to the transformer.
Just my 2 cents for what it's worth. Also, as a side note.. We sub out the lock work to a locksmith and we perform all the electrical. No locksmith is going to be connecting to or wiring anything to my control panel. He installs the lock and I make the connections.
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Thanks for info , the 3 ways are because they want to be able to control the lock from severel locations with out having to run to a control panel . with the battery back up the lock would not open when power is killed to the tranny . As far as the alarm relay , these locks only stay engaged a few minutes while they count the money , and I believe the panic button is enough for the fire control . Also one of the 3 ways is by the door to disarm the lock . This is one of the setups shown by the mfg . and NEC110.3 B allows the instructions to override any other codes . If your have more suggestions or info please post :grin:
 
jetlag said:
Thanks for info , the 3 ways are because they want to be able to control the lock from severel locations with out having to run to a control panel . with the battery back up the lock would not open when power is killed to the tranny . As far as the alarm relay , these locks only stay engaged a few minutes while they count the money , and I believe the panic button is enough for the fire control . Also one of the 3 ways is by the door to disarm the lock . This is one of the setups shown by the mfg . and NEC110.3 B allows the instructions to override any other codes . If your have more suggestions or info please post :grin:
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I guess I just don't understand your particular setup. As far as the abillity to control the lock from several locations. I would simply install push-buttons at the remote locations and use them as inputs into the control panel for lock control. There is no need to go to the control panel at all once installed and wired. The panic button alone would not be all that is required for fire alarm if the system were energized (ie. locked). That fire alarm provision is to cut power to a fail safe lock without user interface. This is a safety issue for a couple reasons. 1. It allows access to the building for emergency personel (fireman) so they dont have to break the door down. 2. If there indeed was a fire with smoke an occupant might not be able to see the panic button in order to press it.
If they only want the doors locked for a few minutes to count money. A door over-ride could be programmed into the controller as well and activated at any location you choose to keep the door locked.
Sounds like you have it figured out. I just never installed a setup the way you are proposing. If it works and the customer is happy I guess that is all that matters. :D
 
jetlag said:
This very confusing because I dont believe the low voltage licence is enforced around here , to wire new houses we run the catv , door bell , secuity cams , and other things , even the smoke alarms contain the low volt interconnection wire . I dont know of an electrical contractor here that also has a low voltage license , or that calls in a low volt contractor to wire the house. Do all of you that do these things have a low voltage license ?
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In Connecticut we have a LIMITED low voltage license (several) which allows you to work up to 48 volts.

Then we have an UNLIMITED license that allows you to work on ANYTHING in ANYPLACE. From solar lights :) all the up to 100,000,000 volts or so:grin:
 
roger3829 said:
In Connecticut we have a LIMITED low voltage license (several) which allows you to work up to 48 volts.

Then we have an UNLIMITED license that allows you to work on ANYTHING in ANYPLACE. From solar lights :) all the up to 100,000,000 volts or so:grin:
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I will leave the 100,000,000 volt for you to work on , well I probably would leave 601 volt for you also . The exception would be I will do a neon transformer , that can pack a pretty jolt at 10,000 volt . :grin::grin:
 
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