Elevator phone

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Electromatic

Electromatic

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Virginia
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Master Electrician
I haven't done many elevators. The one I'm working on now requires "one dedicated outside telephone line" to the machine space. (MRL system)
Can I use the phone line that the fire alarm control panel is hooked to? We already have to get a route for cable there anyway. I'm hesitant to ask either the fire alarm or elevator company for fear they'll start throwing their own requirements into the mix.
 
Electromatic said:
I haven't done many elevators. The one I'm working on now requires "one dedicated outside telephone line" to the machine space. (MRL system)
Can I use the phone line that the fire alarm control panel is hooked to? We already have to get a route for cable there anyway. I'm hesitant to ask either the fire alarm or elevator company for fear they'll start throwing their own requirements into the mix.
Click to expand...
We are required to have a dedicated line for any elevator. A fire alarm could seize the line in the event of a fire and cut off the elevator. They dispatcher or alarm company also must be able to call back into the elevator. Some fire panel UDACTS will answer to enable remote programming.
I never mess with the elevator requirements. Too much liability.
 
If there are any hurdles you don't want to jump over to pull an additional phone line for the elevator, there are a lot of cellular options out there now from a variety of manufacturers. Could be worth taking a look at. I'm definitely not sure how widely they are accepted in lieu of landline, but I've had them on my projects before in Oklahoma.
 
I've done many. Code usually requires a dedicated POTS line, usually copper (dial tone not supplied by a cable modem or FiOS). Same requirement as for fire systems.

Elevator phones must be programmed to dial either a security company that the building has or 911 when the button is pushed.

-Hal
 
dpcarls1598 said:
I never mess with the elevator requirements. Too much liability.
Click to expand...

You run your phone line into the mechanical room and leave it next to the control cabinet. The elevator company will take it from there. If this is a new elevator, most times it will come with a phone panel installed so running the line is all you have to do. Other times it will be your job to provide and install the phone also. In which case be sure and ask what it's supposed to call so you can program it accordingly. The elevator company should have already connected your phone line to the traveling cable and it will be available in the cab panel where the phone needs to go ready for you to connect.

-Hal
 
The overall project is adding the elevator to an existing building and a remodel of the 2nd floor (3 stories total). The 1st floor is an operating restaurant; I'm not sure where their phone line comes in or is terminated. The 2nd floor we just kept all the existing mess of VOIP equipment with fiber optic coming into the space to serve it.
Could I use the restaurant phone number, or does it have to be entirely dedicated? I guess I'll have to ask the building owner how they want to handle it. I did see that there are cellular options these day which might even be cheaper per month than a new phone line.

Thanks for the input.
 
I have done many and all required a dedicated land line run to the machine room as Hal stated, you can not share the FA lines. We have also had to furnish the phone in some installations. There should be a detailed scope as to what you are required to furnish and install.

Roger
 
Electromatic said:
Could I use the restaurant phone number, or does it have to be entirely dedicated? I guess I'll have to ask the building owner how they want to handle it
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Nope. DEDICATED. The building owner is the last person I would ask. He would have no idea and won't want to spend any money so he'll tell you anything. Why do you think the elevator was without a phone until now? The people to ask is the elevator inspection authority and/or the fire marshal. That way when the owner has to pony up for an additional phone line he can't argue- which he will with you.

-Hal
 
Dedicated-(of a thing) exclusively allocated to or intended for a particular service or purpose.
(not shared with anything else)

Every municipality can have slightly different requirements, but echoing Roger & Hal everyone I've see said a single-purpose POTS line supplied by the local Telco, and billed/maintained by the building management, not by a tenant.
 
Speaking of a dedicate COPPER line, they assume that in a power outage the POTS line will remain functional like in the ‘olden days’ when I was a kid…. Today at our newer sites, the provide dial tone via fiber with a media converter in the data closet. That is plugged into a standard wall outlet (which I’ve moved to generator backup at least) but this is still a VOIP line.
At out last new building, copper was not an option. At our older sites, copper is still operational (barely) but not supported. Service will send out a tech but unless it’s a simple termination issue, they recommend a fiber upgrade.
 
dpcarls1598 said:
Today at our newer sites, the provide dial tone via fiber with a media converter in the data closet.
Click to expand...

Verizon FiOS would be an example of that as I mentioned above. It's only as good as the utility power powering the ONT on site. A copper POTS line won't have that vulnerability. If copper is not an option only then may the alternative fiber or cable delivered dial tone be used- presumably with a suitable battery backup.

As mentioned, fire systems can use cellular for both backup and normal communications. I have not seen elevator phones that use that method, probably because they wouldn't involve me.

-Hal
 
This is an older building that did not previously have an elevator. There is no general mechanical, electrical, telecom or other room dedicated for utilities in the building. As the building management/owner will have to pay for this phone line, I see no way around informing them what has to happen and see how they want to handle it.
I will poke around and see what POTS cabling might be coming in the building and check whether a VOIP or cell line would be acceptable in this area. (I'm not truly sure that the 2nd floor has existing VOIP components--just that there is fiber into the space that goes to numerous switches, patch panels, etc.)
 
I have been working on fire alarm systems recently. This information may not be useful for elevators but I think the codes are closely related in intention. After reading this thread I asked the fire alarm technician what the fire alarm code is here in central Indiana. He said the requirement is two different phone systems to insure redundancy. Usually it’s a copper POTS line and a cellular connection but they are permitted to have two cellular DACTs as long as there are two different providers with different antennas. Or VOIP and POTs or VOIP and cellular.
The two cellular service option sounds good if it is awkward to bring in copper POTs.


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Electromatic said:
I haven't done many elevators. The one I'm working on now requires "one dedicated outside telephone line" to the machine space. (MRL system)
Can I use the phone line that the fire alarm control panel is hooked to? We already have to get a route for cable there anyway. I'm hesitant to ask either the fire alarm or elevator company for fear they'll start throwing their own requirements into the mix.
Click to expand...
I'd agree you can't use a shared line, but you can probably use an unused wire pair of an existing cable if there is one.
 
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