Elevator pit separate circuits

[brother]

I dont have my code book at present so I hope I can get a hand in this.

It was my understanding of nec 2020 and older that the elevator pit lighting and receptacles had to be on a seperate circuit from anything not associated with the elevator pit. Basically garage lights cannot be on the same circuit as the elevator pit power and lights but the light and receptacle that are in the pit together are allowed to be on the same circuit.

Someone told me that section was to be interpreted to mean the receptacle and the lights in the pit cannot be on the same circuit but the lights can be on a garage lighting circuit.

I believe this is somewhere in article 620 not sure. But I'm almost certain that anything outside the elevator pit cannot be part of the same circuit whether the receptacle is on the same as the lighting in the pit or not. Basically anything associated with the elevator including car lights had to be seperate.
Am I right on this?

 

[ActionDave]

I dont have my code book at present so I hope I can get a hand in this.

It was my understanding of nec 2020 and older that the elevator pit lighting and receptacles had to be on a seperate circuit from anything not associated with the elevator pit. Basically garage lights cannot be on the same circuit as the elevator pit power and lights but the light and receptacle that are in the pit together are allowed to be on the same circuit.

Correct

Someone told me that section was to be interpreted to mean the receptacle and the lights in the pit cannot be on the same circuit but the lights can be on a garage lighting circuit.

No

I believe this is somewhere in article 620 not sure. But I'm almost certain that anything outside the elevator pit cannot be part of the same circuit whether the receptacle is on the same as the lighting in the pit or not.

620.22 and 620.24

Basically anything associated with the elevator including car lights had to be seperate.
Am I right on this?

Yes

 

[david luchini]

but the light and receptacle that are in the pit together are allowed to be on the same circuit.

620.24(A) says Separate branch circuits (plural) shall supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacles.

I would interpret that to mean that the pit lighting and receptacles can't be on the same circuit. Most of the elevator equipment suppliers I've dealt with also interpret it that way.

 

[ActionDave]

That must be a 2020 thing.

 

[brother]

620.24(A) says Separate branch circuits (plural) shall supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacles.

I would interpret that to mean that the pit lighting and receptacles can't be on the same circuit. Most of the elevator equipment suppliers I've dealt with also interpret it that way.

Interesting interpertation. Do you interpet the circuits in the pit can be on other circuits outside the pit? such as the garage lighting on the same circuit as the pit lighting, would it be legal in your interpretation?

 

[david luchini]

Interesting interpertation. Do you interpet the circuits in the pit can be on other circuits outside the pit? such as the garage lighting on the same circuit as the pit lighting, would it be legal in your interpretation?

I do, though I wouldn't design it that way.

The section on machine room/control space says the light and receptacle shall be on separate circuits AND that those circuits shall have no other outlets.

The "no other outlets" verbiage doesn't appear in the Pit section.

 

[brother]

I do, though I wouldn't design it that way.

The section on machine room/control space says the light and receptacle shall be on separate circuits AND that those circuits shall have no other outlets.

The "no other outlets" verbiage doesn't appear in the Pit section

Thanks for the input. I'm finally back home able to see my code book now. My memory of this issue is coming back now from years ago in talking with others about ASME 17.1 etc..

The practice and the combination of articles (NEC 2020 620.24 and 620.37) that we were taught to harmonize them was that the circuits supplying the receptacle and lighting could not supply no other such wiring. The language in 620.37 (A) Uses Permitted. Only such electrical wiring, ..... was what was used to prohibit the use of a the circuits for other outlets/such wiring outside the hoist-way and pit. They added the language for the lighting not being on the load side of the gfci to ensure if the gfci tripped it would be less likely that it would kill lighting in the pit. This statement implied the light and receptacle can be on the same circuit so long as the light was not on the gfci load side.

Found old threads that appear to have my same understanding. Read below.

Elevator Pit Requirements

620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Receptacle(s). (A) Separate Branch Circuit. A separate branch circuit shall supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacle(s). Required lighting shall not be connected to the load side of a ground-fault circuit interrupter. (B) Lighting...

forums.mikeholt.com

"Re: Elevator Pit Requirements

Yes thats just what it means. they can be on the same circuit, but the light must be upstream of the gfi. These are the only things allowed on this circuit also. Machine room recept. must be on its own circuit also."

 

[ActionDave]

....
"Re: Elevator Pit Requirements

Yes thats just what it means. they can be on the same circuit, but the light must be upstream of the gfi. These are the only things allowed on this circuit also. Machine room recept. must be on its own circuit also."

That's the way I learned it.

 

[david luchini]

Found old threads that appear to have my same understanding. Read below.

The language in 620.24 has changed, so I don't think that old understanding is valid anymore.

 

[brother]

The language in 620.24 has changed, so I don't think that old understanding is valid anymore.

Can you clarify what part of the language you believe has changed that would change the intent and meaning of the practice i and others have? Also some inspectors use NEC 2022 ASME 17.1 Elevator code to push the same understanding that I have. And can you tell us how do you reconcile 620.37 with your interpretation?

Thanks,

 

[david luchini]

Can you clarify what part of the language you believe has changed that would change the intent and meaning of the practice i and others have?

This is the section as you posted it...

620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Receptacle(s).
(A) Separate Branch Circuit. A separate branch circuit shall supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacle(s).
Required lighting shall not be connected to the load side of a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

This is what the Code says now...

620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Receptacle(s).
(A) Separate Branch Circuits. Separate branch circuits shall supply the hoistway pit lighting and receptacle(s).
Required lighting shall not be connected to the load side of a ground-fault circuit interrupter.

The language changed from a singular circuit to supply both lighting and receptacles, to plural circuits (separate circuits) to supply the lighting and receptacles.

 

[Fred B]

620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Receptacle(s).
(A) Separate Branch Circuit. .......

620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Receptacle(s).
(A) Separate Branch Circuits. Separate branch circuits .......

What year of each reference David?

 

[brother]

This is the section as you posted it...


This is what the Code says now...



The language changed from a singular circuit to supply both lighting and receptacles, to plural circuits (separate circuits) to supply the lighting and receptacles.

OK. I can see where that can be interpreted and applied that way, that 2 separate circuits will be needed for light and receptacles in the pit. They should have made the language wording the same as 620.23 about machine rooms etc.. that leaves no doubt or question. .

So what about my other question about 620.37? Are you saying that the circuits in the elevator pit or other elevator circuits are allowed to supply circuits outside the elevator pit, like a lighting for a parking garage, or the receptacle circuits supplying outlets in a hallway or office?

 

[brother]

620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Receptacle(s).
(A) Separate Branch Circuit. .......

620.24 Branch Circuit for Hoistway Pit Lighting and Receptacle(s).
(A) Separate Branch Circuits. Separate branch circuits .......

What year of each reference David?

My old code book shows that change happened in 2017. That language should have been made the same as 620.23 to sure there was no doubt. That small change can be missed or misinterpreted by some.

 

[david luchini]

They should have made the language wording the same as 620.23 about machine rooms etc.. that leaves no doubt or question. .

The 620.23 language is similar.

(A) Separate Branch Circuits. The branch circuit(s) supplying lighting for machine room, control rooms, machinery spaces or control spaces shall be separate from the branch circuits(s) supplying the receptacle(s) in those places. These circuits shall supply no other loads.

Lighting and receptacles have to be on separate circuits. This section goes further in saying that these circuits shall supply no other loads. That language isn't in 620.24.

So what about my other question about 620.37? Are you saying that the circuits in the elevator pit or other elevator circuits are allowed to supply circuits outside the elevator pit, like a lighting for a parking garage, or the receptacle circuits supplying outlets in a hallway or office?

Yes. I don't see anything 620.37 that would prevent that.

 

[brother]

The 620.23 language is similar.


Lighting and receptacles have to be on separate circuits. This section goes further in saying that these circuits shall supply no other loads. That language isn't in 620.24.

Yes. I don't see anything 620.37 that would prevent that.

What about the part in 620.37 that says, Only such electrical wiring.... ? This seems to limit and make the restriction to me.

 

[david luchini]

What about the part in 620.37 that says, Only such electrical wiring.... ? This seems to limit and make the restriction to me.

The wiring in the hoistway to the light and receptacle would be in connection with the elevator installation. No violation.