Elevators

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JamesCampbell

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I need help on the intent and requirements of Article 620.51. After reading it several times and while I am sure everyone has a NEC, I am including it just in case:

620.51 Disconnecting Means.
A single means for disconnecting all ungrounded main power supply conductors for each unit shall be provided and be designed so that no pole can be operated independently. Where multiple driving machines are connected to a single elevator, escalator, moving walk, or pumping unit, there shall be one disconnecting means to disconnect the motor(s) and control valve operating magnets.
(A) Type. The disconnecting means shall be an enclosed externally operable fused motor circuit switch or circuit breaker capable of being locked in the open position. The disconnecting means shall be a listed device.
(B) Operation. No provision shall be made to open or close this disconnecting means from any other part of the premises. If sprinklers are installed in hoistways, machine rooms, control rooms, machinery spaces, or control spaces, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to automatically open the power supply to the affected elevator(s) prior to the application of water. No provision shall be made to automatically close this disconnecting means. Power shall only be restored by manual means.
(C) Location. The disconnecting means shall be located where it is readily accessible to qualified persons.

It reads as though it needs to be installed like a Fire pump. Which I am sure it is not. If installed where is the shunt trip to be located? What is the exact location of the disconnecting means on the premises? This discussion is generating a lot of debate in my office and with several contractors. There is also several elevators within my jurisdiction that is waiting on this debate.
:-? :-?
 
James,

The shunt can be part of the required disconnect.

The location is in the Elevator Equipment Room, close to motor.

These answers are only from my experince, also, the Elevator Inspector has

the final say regardless of what the NEC says.
 
elevator

elevator

So the NEC is not a requirement and only a guide line then. and I assume by your statement the elevator inspector can change the code requirements set forth in the NEC.
 
JamesCampbell said:
So the NEC is not a requirement and only a guide line then. and I assume by your statement the elevator inspector can change the code requirements set forth in the NEC.
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I'll say some Elevator Inspectors are very particular how things are done. If

elevator installers have a stamped set of drawings, and the electrical is

different than your prints, I would lay it out to their drawings. This is 'my'

opinion of how it gets done.
 
elevators

elevators

I believe in the NEC and what it says will keep me out of court. Elevators deal with lives. So i follow the letter of the NEC. Article 620.51 Says that there is to be a single disconnecting means and not be located on any other part of the premises so the shunt trip add-on must stay with that disconnect. How is it allowed to be removed and satisify the letter of the law?
 
I think you are interpreting the Code to say the elevator feeder may not come from downstream of your building's service disconnect. That like a fire pump, the elevator gets its own meter?

I recently ran an elevator ckt from the adjoining parking garage's main gear to a 3rd floor elevator equipment room. The garage switchboard has a 2000A main for the the house distribution panel. In the HDP, I installed a 3P 125A BKR for my 250 kcmil AL elevator feeder conductors. In the elevator equipment room I installed the shunt trip BKR in a breaker enclosure. I tied the shunt trip coil into the fire alarm stuff. From there it gets iffy with the NEC and the elevator inspector because I'm allowed by the NEC to run greenfield but the state elevator inspector doesn't want to see any flex over 6' long.

My point is you can turn off the elevator by throwing the 2000A main in the garage, the 125A feeder bkr in the garage, and the 125A shunt trip bkr in the equipment room. This is certainly code compliant.

The way I interpret the code is that disconnects must open all poles of ungrounded conductors going to elevator equipment, including lighting.
 
In the case of my install, the 120V cab light required a 2 pole fused lockable disconnect required by the elevator inspector.

The shunt trip coil was tied into the fire detection system, so theoretically the shunt trip bkr could be remotely operated to open by setting a fire down in the first floor elevator lobby or elsewhere.
 
What is the exact location of the disconnecting means on the premises?
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Your disconnection is with-in sight of the service that it supplies, thats why its an elevator room.
The space is for that service only.
 
JamesCampbell said:
I believe in the NEC and what it says will keep me out of court. Elevators deal with lives. So i follow the letter of the NEC. Article 620.51 Says that there is to be a single disconnecting means and not be located on any other part of the premises so the shunt trip add-on must stay with that disconnect. How is it allowed to be removed and satisify the letter of the law?
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James, The shunt trip is not required by the 'Saftey Code for Elevators and

Escalators' where hoistways and machine rooms are not sprinklered.

ASME A17.1-2004

NFPA 13, 'Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems' provides requirements

for the installation of sprinklers in hoistways, machine rooms, and pits.

620.51 does not say there is to be a single disconnecting means. It says a

single means for disconnecting all ungrounded 'main power supply conductors

for each unit shall be provided'----

James, We all believe in the NEC, Electricity deals with lives, Why would an

Electrical Inspector think an Elevator Inspectors' giudence on an Elevator

installation not appropreate ???
 
Welcome to the forum "Redbone" your father also started me in the trade. As for the elevator disconnect every elevator man I have dealt with demands that it be in the elevator equipment room.
 
elevator

elevator

Thanks buddy.

While i do appreciate everyone telling me how to install the disconnect, I am actually looking for your opinion on Article 620.51. Please read Article 620.51 (a) (b) and (c) and tell me how you think it should be done. Once a city or state adoptes the code and the specific year it is published that then becomes a law that must be adhered to. If you disagree with this then we have a different problem. I would like to stay on this article and its meaning.
 
I can't go farther than my state requirements, and the elevator man steering me otherwise.

Frankly having opened yet another elevator drive unit to see what I need to supply it, I only bring in the power, there's enough smarts in modern elevator equipment to handle the Line side of the service, if its anything other than modern, yes it could well be a concern on your part. JMO
 
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the way I see it James it allows other overcurrent devices outside the elevator room.
"(B) Operation. No provision shall be made to open or close this disconnecting means from any other part of the premises." The key word there is this.
 
JamesCampbell said:
Thanks buddy.

While i do appreciate everyone telling me how to install the disconnect, I am actually looking for your opinion on Article 620.51. Please read Article 620.51 (a) (b) and (c) and tell me how you think it should be done. Once a city or state adoptes the code and the specific year it is published that then becomes a law that must be adhered to. If you disagree with this then we have a different problem. I would like to stay on this article and its meaning.
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Clear and simple. You need a means of disconnect to disconnect power to it and this means must have the capability to be locked in the open position. You need to have this disconnecting means within site of the controller/motor. If not within site you need a maually operated switch installed in the control circuit to prevent starting. This is how I read it, please correct me if I'm wrong. (As I know people here are so quickly to do :grin: )
 
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