employees vs independent contractor

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You might be able to pull that off South of the Red River, but here in Oklahoma, our licensing act says that, "No journeyman or apprentice shall be able to sell their labor".

About the only way it would work here would be to hire a guy, workman's comp and all, and pay 'em minimum wage plus piece work "commission".

Except, I would never work under those terms :grin:
 
brian john said:
Was not intentionally left out I know there was a grin in your post...

In my expierence I have seen little benefit to employees from firms that do piece work. Drywallers work their buns off, till they can't produce at the high level required to make a living. Backs go and then they go, to what labor's? And the piece means hang it and leave it...Lacks quality.


Piece work is akin to assembly line work I just can't see this benefiting the trade or employees, in the long run.
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brian, you are a smart man...do you possibly think that maybe, possibly, somehow, a piecework type system could be implemented where the employee will make more money (if they don't always screw up) and the employer can better price jobs?

or is it impossible for any type of piece work to be nothing other than slave driving, low wages, kill the worker before he retires, screw 'em all type of system?

i think you know the answer, and i think you understand what i'm saying...
 
Minuteman said:
You might be able to pull that off South of the Red River, but here in Oklahoma, our licensing act says that, "No journeyman or apprentice shall be able to sell their labor".

About the only way it would work here would be to hire a guy, workman's comp and all, and pay 'em minimum wage plus piece work "commission".

Except, I would never work under those terms :grin:
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how is the employee saying I will perform this project for $2500, you (the employer) pay the payroll taxes, the benefits, etc...any different than the employee saying I will sell this hour to you for $25, you (the employer) pay the payroll taxes, the benefits, etc...

reread the law...journeymen and apprentices sell their labor every hour of the day...

what they can't do is contract without a license...they don't have to in a properly administered system...
 
brian, you are a smart man...
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You are assuming a lot here.

I am sure there scheme's that may work in this, I have been involved with several firms that did piece work and have done piece work (in the early 70's).
In addition I work for roofing and gutter company that did piece work, and I have worjked with and around piece work drywallers for years.

Just never saw the quality.

I can work very fast, and did switch and plugging at said .25 cente per, was making $5.00 when my pay was $3.25 an hour. Busted hump and NO WAY I could keep up that pace for more than a day or two. Beside after 2 days of switching and plugging I am ready for something different as I get bored.

I just have not been able to put this into any good light in my brain.
 
brian john said:
You are assuming a lot here.

I am sure there scheme's that may work in this, I have been involved with several firms that did piece work and have done piece work (in the early 70's).
In addition I work for roofing and gutter company that did piece work, and I have worjked with and around piece work drywallers for years.

Just never saw the quality.

I can work very fast, and did switch and plugging at said .25 cente per, was making $5.00 when my pay was $3.25 an hour. Busted hump and NO WAY I could keep up that pace for more than a day or two. Beside after 2 days of switching and plugging I am ready for something different as I get bored.

I just have not been able to put this into any good light in my brain.
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let me ask this question...

if we have a project that is estimated to be 10 hours (not a SWAG estimate, but an actual take off vs historical hours - heck, use NECA labor times)...what is the difference between paying you $250 (not including burden) for the project or paying you $25/hr (not including burden)?

Why should the work be any different?

or are you saying that people are incapable of not being greedy? that I agree with whole heartedly...but it runs both ways...

did you actually read my novel earlier where I layed out how a system 'could' benefit both employee and employer if implemented correctly...?
 
On a residential project we do, I work side-by-side with a "low voltage" company. We do line voltage, they do TVs, tels, alarm, etc. We also have one of their ex-"employees" working for us now.

They do peice work, and from what they tell me, I am 99% sure it is illegal. They only work for this one company, and there is no workers comp. In fact, both of them had to work while injured. (Job related) No work, no pay.
 
JohnJ0906 said:
On a residential project we do, I work side-by-side with a "low voltage" company. We do line voltage, they do TVs, tels, alarm, etc. We also have one of their ex-"employees" working for us now.

They do peice work, and from what they tell me, I am 99% sure it is illegal. They only work for this one company, and there is no workers comp. In fact, both of them had to work while injured. (Job related) No work, no pay.
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and their setup may very well, from the sounds of it, be illegal...but so is paying someone hourly in cash under the table...
 
emahler said:
and their setup may very well, from the sounds of it, be illegal...but so is paying someone hourly in cash under the table...
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legit piece work and bogus sub arrangements are not the same thing, despite the attempt by some posters to equate them.
 
Contactor vs. employee

Contactor vs. employee

I am not sure what state you are from, but here in CT. they can not be sub contractors because they can con pull permits for their work. Also in the state of MA if more than 50% of the contactors salary comes from one source he is then considered an employee and not a contractor.
 
pjenn001 said:
...Also in the state of MA if more than 50% of the contactors salary comes from one source he is then considered an employee and not a contractor.
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This is the same in California; a 1099 places this burden of taxes and insurances on the recipient of the 1099 document.

Peace-work is not contracting at all but it can include a legal labor agreement though. The electrical contractor is liable for installation regardless and must pay labor wages according to the labor commissioner (which can include incentives/bonuses) but the contractor cannot transfer liability to anyone other than another contractor. A client that would allow a "sub-sub contractor" is really taking risk because in the event of a liability claim their going to go to the general contractor which in turn will go to the first sub which in turn will go to the second (installing) sub. There is no legal way to avoid paying labor taxes/liabilities/and unemployment benefits, whether you're a contractor or employee these are required. Also in California an installing electrician is required to have a journeyman license at minimum and a peace-worker or owner is not exempt of this requirement.

Choose your markets/niches carefully, whether you are a contractor or an employee, if your markets are not viable they won't return enough - if any at all - and a market that requires illegal actions is not a viable market.
 
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