EMT conduit supports

[anbm]

If EMT conduit is used to run data, phone wiring, does it need to comply with 3 feet support from a J-box?

 

[rc/retired]

If EMT conduit is used to run data, phone wiring, does it need to comply with 3 feet support from a J-box?

IMO, yes. EMT needs to be supported per 358.30.
EMT apparently doesn't care what's in it.
Ron

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Nothing in Article 725 says you are not required to comply with the raceway installation rules found in Chapter 3, so all of the rules for the installation of EMT apply.
If the installation is a Chapter 8 installation, which is a stand alone chapter, 800.110(A)(1) tells you that where you use a raceway for a Chapter 8 installation, you must follow the Chapter 3 rules for that raceway.

 

[wwhitney]

Nothing in Article 725 says you are not required to comply with the raceway installation rules found in Chapter 3, so all of the rules for the installation of EMT apply.

But does Article 725 require a Chapter 3 compliant raceway, or even require that any sleeve for the cables be in the form of a Chapter 3 compliant raceway? If not, I don't see any prohibition on using some parts that could be made into a Chapter 3 compliant raceway in a laxer fashion as a sleeve for the Article 725 cables.

Basically, if the install would be compliant if the EMT magically disappeared, I don't see how the presence of the EMT can make it non-compliant.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

But does Article 725 require a Chapter 3 compliant raceway, or even require that any sleeve for the cables be in the form of a Chapter 3 compliant raceway? If not, I don't see any prohibition on using some parts that could be made into a Chapter 3 compliant raceway in a laxer fashion as a sleeve for the Article 725 cables.

Basically, if the install would be compliant if the EMT magically disappeared, I don't see how the presence of the EMT can make it non-compliant.

Cheers, Wayne

If the install is made using a raceway system, the raceway system must be installed per the Chapter 3 rules, even where the wiring within the raceway system is not required to be in a raceway system.
If you are just installing sleeves, then that is not really subject to any rules.

 

[wwhitney]

If the install is made using a raceway . . .
If you are just installing sleeves, then that is not really subject to any rules.

Great. So whenever a raceway isn't required, we can just call an "almost" raceway system a sleeve.

So the answer to the OP is "yes if you want it to be a raceway, no if you're happy to just have a sleeve."

Cheers, Wayne

 

[tom baker]

Wayne would a raceway be box to box?
And a sleeve just that?

 

[wwhitney]

Wayne would a raceway be box to box?
And a sleeve just that?

That would be a typical distinction.

But if the install would be compliant with cardboard boxes and string and chewing gum, and you choose to use metal boxes and sticks of EMT to give a higher quality install, I don't see why you need to comply with all the raceway rules, as you didn't need a raceway in the first place. So in that case only let's just call anything less than a fully compliant raceway system a "sleeve" or "extra, optional protection".

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

That would be a typical distinction.

But if the install would be compliant with cardboard boxes and string and chewing gum, and you choose to use metal boxes and sticks of EMT to give a higher quality install, I don't see why you need to comply with all the raceway rules, as you didn't need a raceway in the first place. So in that case only let's just call anything less than a fully compliant raceway system a "sleeve" or "extra, optional protection".

Cheers, Wayne

If the raceway is connected box to box, it will get a red tag from me if the raceway was not installed in accordance with the rules in Chapter 3.

 

[wwhitney]

If the raceway is connected box to box, it will get a red tag from me if the raceway was not installed in accordance with the rules in Chapter 3.

The flip side of that statement is that if we further omit the two box connectors at each end of the EMT, now it's suddenly OK for Article 725 installations that don't require raceways or boxes? That makes no sense.

When boxes and raceways aren't required, they are just decorations. As long as they don't damage the cable, or otherwise interfere with any of the requirements for installing that cable, they can't cause an NEC violation.

Of course, for the OP, the job specs may have something to say on the matter.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[don_resqcapt19]

The flip side of that statement is that if we further omit the two box connectors at each end of the EMT, now it's suddenly OK for Article 725 installations that don't require raceways or boxes? That makes no sense.

When boxes and raceways aren't required, they are just decorations. As long as they don't damage the cable, or otherwise interfere with any of the requirements for installing that cable, they can't cause an NEC violation.

Of course, for the OP, the job specs may have something to say on the matter.

Cheers, Wayne

It does not make any sense and given that the support requirements are there not only to help protect the wiring inside, but also to protect people below the raceway, especially firefighters pulling ceilings under fire conditions.

Probably needs to go on a 2029 PI list...any raceway installed in lengths exceeding 10', even where used only as a sleeve shall be supported in accordance with the raceway article.

 

[jaggedben]

To me what matters is what's inside the EMT.

If it's listed Class 2 or Class 3 cables inside the EMT, its a sleeve.

If it's a Class 1 wiring method used for Class 2 or Class 3 circuits (which is permitted), then the EMT is a raceway system.

Boxes would be required for the latter, and not the former, but if they were used in the former the EMT would still be a sleeve.

 

[jaggedben]

...

Probably needs to go on a 2029 PI list...any raceway installed in lengths exceeding 10', even where used only as a sleeve shall be supported in accordance with the raceway article.

There's always 110.12 when you really need it.

 

[Fred B]

I've seen many time change of use when EMT or other's are used. As needs change, it has the ability to pull out old and install new per application. It might at one point be a packet of 12 wire for branch circuit(s) wire, then the branch no longer needed and pull in LV for a piece of equipment control or alarm, then changes happen and then the desire to pull in a bunch of CAT for POE setup, then the next time going back to regular wiring for a branch circuit. If you omit the installation supports in a section of EMT that might likely be later concealed (maybe even just ceiling tiles), it can present a significant hazard.
I agree with Don, EMT without proper supports, unless obviously only short sleeving, would deserve a red tag.

But there is one allowance under very specific criteria
358.30(A)
Exception No. 2:
For concealed work in finished buildings or prefinished wall panels where such securing is impracticable, unbroken lengths (without coupling) of EMT shall be permitted to be fished.

 

[electrofelon]

It does not make any sense and given that the support requirements are there not only to help protect the wiring inside, but also to protect people below the raceway, especially firefighters pulling ceilings under fire conditions.

Probably needs to go on a 2029 PI list...any raceway installed in lengths exceeding 10', even where used only as a sleeve shall be supported in accordance with the raceway article.

I agree with Wayne here. Consider that the "raceway" is not even used for anything covered by the NEC. Say I use it to run an air line through. Does the EMT still have to meet the 358 requirements? I think that is obviously a no, so what is the distinction between that and something that is covered in the NEC but that does not require a raceway?

 

[jaggedben]

Yeah suppose I use copper plumbing pipe as a sleeve for my CL3R cables. Does the NEC have specific rules about how I support the plumbing pipe? What's the difference with EMT?

Again, there's always 110.12 when you really need it.