EMT in masonry wall

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buck

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Question for inspectors or others who may have installed--How does your jurisdiction view installation of EMT in fully grouted masonry wall? Walls are not in hazardous, wet, or damp areas and not subject to physical damage.
Thanks in advance.
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

I didn't install it but was posed the question.
I think the reference to DAMP would mean a damp location NOT during grout, since it is allowed in concrete which is poured wet.
You're right PVC would have been my choice but the situation is after-the-fact.
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

By the way you say grout, I take it to mean the mortar that is used to hold the concrete block together. I have no problem with it. The mortar dries with little if any effect on the conduit. This is a pretty common installation around the Chicago area.

[ August 11, 2004, 07:58 PM: Message edited by: russ ]
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

Maybe I miss understood you. Even if it was in a wall that was concrete, plaster, or grout I don't think I'd have a problem with those installations either
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

358.12 lists where not permitted.I second the pvc
with todays prices the way to go.
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

Thanks guys, quite frankly I don't have a problem with it either. If it can be installed in concrete, then in grout(which is really a lower grade concrete) it should be fine as long as it
complies with the rules of 358.12.
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

EMT has been installed in concrete since the day it was invented. Nearly every commercial building with masonery walls and floors uses EMT unless RMC is required by code. You don't even have to use compression connectors, set screw connectors are listed as concrete tight.

No way would I use PVC in a commercial installation like this.

-Hal
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

Depending on the exact installation, I might have a problem with this. If the wall, that the EMT is installed into, is a "structural" wall then this would not meet the Building Code. The EMT conduit is displacing the concrete in the wall therefore weakens the strength of the structure. The correct material for a structural wall would be IMC or Rigid steel conduit.
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

Jerry, if the structural engineer is not taking into account penetrations in his structural design he is not doing his job.
-Ed
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

...The EMT conduit is displacing the concrete in the wall therefore weakens the strength of the structure. The correct material for a structural wall would be IMC or Rigid steel conduit.

That's a bit of a stretch to say the least. If the conduit (EMT) quantity, size or placement "weakens the strength" of the structure then IMC or rigid would be no better.

Anything structural needs to be properly designed with all factors taken into account.

-Hal
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

The Structural Engineer is going to design around the conditions that he is familiar with. The problem comes when a different trade comes along and slips their pipe into a wall cavity which is intended to be a "Structural" support. Based on your comment the structural engineer is supposed to over design in case someone constructs a wall to a lesser quality.

Different codes read differently. The 2003 International Building Code paragraph 1906.3 says "Conduits, Pipes and sleeves of any material not harmful to concrete and with the limitations of ACI 318, Section 6.3 are permitted to be embedded in concrete with the approval of the registered design professional". The question becomes "Which conduits and pipes are not harmful to the concrete?". This is not up to the local installer to decide.

New versions of the building codes are written in a "positive" language. But in the past when the codes were written in "negative" language. The 1997 UBC said "Pipes or conduits shall not be embedded in any masonry in a manner that will reduce the capacity of the masonry to less than that necessary for required strength or required fire protection." Exception also stated "Rigid electric conduits may be embedded in structural masonry when their locations have detailed on the approved plans".

The 1999 Standard Building Code section 1907.3 has one half of an entire page outlining the restrictions for the installation of pipes and conduits in concrete.

All I'm trying to say here is that there are restrictions when it comes to putting conduits into a structural wall, floor or ceiling.
 
Re: EMT in masonry wall

Yes, the restrictions are that the placement or installation cannot compromise the load bearing capacity of the concrete. I see nothing that would restrict any particular type of conduit from being used provided it is not "harmful to the concrete". "Harmful to the concrete" to me has nothing to do with the reduction of the load bearing capacity but rather that it will not cause the concrete to deteriorate or otherwise shorten it's life span.

-Hal
 
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