energized white conductor in the panel?

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zazmat said:
Tom,

I am not sure what you mean by that. Could you elaborate? I don't see where it would be wise to use a conductor rated less than the overcurrent protective device? I can see where wire used could be greater in size, sometimes even to account for voltage drop.
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You have to understand a couple of things. First, overload protection can be placed at any point on the circuit and do its job. Second short circuit and ground fault protection must be at the supply end of the circuit. Third, motor and AC circuits provide the overload protection at the load end of the circuit and the short circuit and ground fault protection at the supply end. The larger breaker can provide the required short circuit and ground fault protection for the smaller wire.
 
Zazmat,
We really need the information on the nameplate of the a/C unit to fully answer your questions. What is the minimum circuit ampacity (MCA) and the Maximum overcurrent protective device values listed on the unit?
 
Zazmat. Here is an art. in 440 on a/c

Nec 2008 said:
440.22 Application and Selection.
(A) Rating or Setting for Individual Motor-Compressor. The motor-compressor branch-circuit short-circuit and ground-fault protective device shall be capable of carrying the starting current of the motor. A protective device having a rating or setting not exceeding 175 percent of the motor-compressor rated-load current or branch-circuit selection current, whichever is greater, shall be permitted, provided that, where the protection specified is not sufficient for the starting current of the motor, the rating or setting shall be permitted to be increased but shall not exceed 225 percent of the motor rated-load current or branch-circuit selection current, whichever is greater.
Exception: The rating of the branch-circuit short-circuit and ground-fault protective device shall not be required to be less than 15 amperes.
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As stated earlier a/c units have overload protection built into the unit so the #10 wire is protected. The breaker is merely a short circuit or ground fault protective device in this case.

Art. 240.4(D) refers us to 240.4(E) & (G). 240.4 (G) allows a larger size breaker for A/c units than the circuit conductors would normally allow.

I would bet the install is fine. Check the min. circuit amp. on the unit (MCA) and also check the max. breaker size stated on the nameplate of the unit.
 
zazmat said:
. . . If I knew of a person in Houston who can do a good job . . .
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Since you are involved with an electric utility (CenterPoint Energy?), I would think you would be able to find a lot of good and qualified electrical contractors. Contact your service connection linemen to see who they have had contact with that do good work.

For what it is worth, even though your panelboard appears to have been wired by someone just out of kindergarten, it is probably just fine. From the conversation about the AC, I believe that circuit is OK. I am assuming everything works correctly but just looks like a mess. The only violation so far is, "110.12 Mechanical Execution of Work. Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner." :smile:
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I always have said use your best man on the panel. The inspector sees garbage there and he will assume the rest matches.
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Funny you should say that. Many moons ago, I wired a rebuilt farmhouse for my future ex-father-in-law. It was a ~3k'sq 2-story house, gutted, reframed where necessary, rebuilt like a new house.

One thing he insisted I do, despite my warning, was put the meter inside the screened porch, because he didn't want it showing on the outside, and he'd handle the inspector, so I did it his way.

I wasn't present at the rough-in inspection, but I was told that the inspector looked in the panel and said he didn't need to look at the rest of the house, but we'd have to move the meter.

My E-F-I-L was rather annoyed because I was right, but I did earn a bit more respect from him that day.
 
I appreciate responses from all the experts here.
Don, Dennis, Charlie thanks for taking time to clear some concepts in my head. It's starting to make sense
 
Nice job getting the pics. You're good to go on the 30 amp breaker given the distance and compressor load. That's a very unique whip from the condensing unit to the disco...seldom see the liquidtight fed behind the brick. I wouldn't fear the work...just know that in any field, things that are done well --looks easy...but messes just look messy no matter what. Have a great evening!!;)
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Zazmat. Here is an art. in 440 on a/c



As stated earlier a/c units have overload protection built into the unit so the #10 wire is protected. The breaker is merely a short circuit or ground fault protective device in this case.

Art. 240.4(D) refers us to 240.4(E) & (G). 240.4 (G) allows a larger size breaker for A/c units than the circuit conductors would normally allow.

I would bet the install is fine. Check the min. circuit amp. on the unit (MCA) and also check the max. breaker size stated on the nameplate of the unit.
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What he said.
 
Your in good shape. The nameplate says 25.7 Min Ckt Ampacity and you have #10 wire which is good. It also says 40 amp Max overcurrent protection, so the 40 amp breaker was fine and the 30 it was replaced with is fine as well. They didn't need to change the breaker.
 
Somebody paid a lot of money and really fixed nothing. The 40 was fine but so is the 30. Dought any electrician been confused as to it being 240. Put the cover back on and rest easy. Yes ugly but we wont tell. If you have a friend in the buisness you might want him to pull a few outlets out and inspect. You received a crapy but legal system other than some tape. You might have many other legal but low quality issues like back stabed receptacles.
Not many breakers for a house needing an AC unit taking 12 pounds of freon. 5 ton ?
 
The replacement with a 30A breaker is a disservice to the homeowner. It may work fine now, but as that compressor gets older, it'll get harder to start and will probably start tripping the breaker on start-up. I've seen this more than once.

Mark
 
I don't think the inspector can be held accountable.

Here's how he stated the problem.

"A white wire enters the AC breaker. White wires are only to be utilized as neutrals, not ?hot? wires. The AC wires are also undersized for this breaker. 40 amp breakers require a minimum #8 copper wire; the present wires are #10. Recommend a licensed electrician be consulted for further evaluation and/or repairs."

I think it's the licensed electrician who should be blamed if he replaced the breaker, while such replacement was not necessary. Don't you all agree?

Also, I called the AHJ and they said that they are still enforcing 98/99 code, and that white wire going into 220V breaker is ok with them since that's how they used to do it in the past.

Based on the information you all provided I think the breaker replacement was not necessary and I think a licensed electrician should know that, shouldn't he :)?

what should be my next recourse?

I really appreciate responses from this great bunch here. I am an engineer and not a licensed electrician and this site has proved very uselful in enhancing my understanding of some of these things
 
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