"energy saving device"

[ishium 80439]

I was at a home show the other day and saw this:

http://www.alpinemanagementgroupinc.com/1622865.html

It is supposedly a capacitor bank that reduces reactive current and they are selling these units for homes and businesses. The demo they had set up was w/ a 1/3 horse motor and they ran it w/ and w/o the unit hooked up and clamped it before the unit and after. The motor was pulling ~5.1A but only registered ~1.8A after the unit (ie at the meter). It seems like an interesting concept. Does anyone have any experience w/ this or anything similiar? It seems that it would be a good upsell for some larger residences and smaller commercial properties w/ lots of motor loads (laundromats, anyplace w/ lots of coolers etc).

 

[HaskinsElectric]

I'm very suspicious of these devices. I do know that watt hour meters are less accurate the further away you get from unity power factor.

 

[charlie tuna]

i don't believe you have enough inductive reactance in a residence to make a difference. years ago i they had a device that was supposed to save a lot of money on refrigerators and freezers. plug it in the receptacle and then the appliance into the device. i ran a few tests on it and brought it back to the store --- power usage was the same -- it raised the voltage seen by the appliance by about five volts.......

 

[brantmacga]

a contractor i work for is trying to get a contract w/ a city to have units like these installed on every home there. it sounds like he's getting close. pop. is around 300k. should be plenty of work.

 

[mdshunk]

I'm going to market one of these too, and to make clear exactly what it does, I'm going to name it The Hocus-Pocus 3000, now with Voodoo inside™.

 

[emahler]

I'm going to market one of these too, and to make clear exactly what it does, I'm going to name it The Hocus-Pocus 3000, now with Voodoo inside?.

dude, you got VooDoo? i'll take 6...

 

[jethro]

sounds like powerfactor corection and the poco dont like it when you over correct we usually only can have the capacitors on line when load is running it would over correct otherwise

 

[weressl]

sounds like powerfactor corection and the poco dont like it when you over correct we usually only can have the capacitors on line when load is running it would over correct otherwise

The amount of current difference just seemed WAY too much for me. They might have been using a very special motor built for demonstration purposes only but it seems that it way overstates the savings. Having said that there can be some saving accomplished, but it should be looked at carefuly. Individual capacitors for individual inductive loads, switched together could work, but if you "overcorrect" as described above, you cna actually use more electricity and pay for it. Capacitors also have a finite life before they fail, much sooner than other inductive equipment.

Have an engineer do it who has no horse in the race....

 

[ishium 80439]

"The Hocus-Pocus 3000, now with Voodoo inside?."

See, now this was only the 2000 version w/ hokum inside. Though I will say it came w/ a free sample of snake oil.

It sounds like most have the skepticism I do. It just seems that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch. I do wonder though if occupancies w/ lots of motors would see a benefit. Also interested how a contractor could force a city to install these on every home. Good for him if he can get the work (and provided I don't live in that city). I guess the only true way to gauge the validity of this would be to have them independently reviewed after a longish term install.

Is this the only product like this you guys know of, or are there different flavors to this?

 

[mdshunk]

Is this the only product like this you guys know of, or are there different flavors to this?

Oh, heavens no. This sort of thing makes its rounds on a regular basis. The "voodoo" is pretty simple and straightforward. A new marketing person just grabs ahold of it every once in a while, paints it a different color, and sells it again. Some are "fancier" than others with regard to their technical approach inside the black box, but in the end they're a waste of money for a home. It was surprising to me about a year back to learn that I'm on the list of installed contractors for one of these devices (Power Save something-or-other), and I never had contact with those folks in my life.

 

[coulter]

They lie like a rug.

http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=91211
Check posts 13, 14, 15.
I don't know how to reference a thread. Maybe this will work.

yep - worked when I clicked on it

carl

 

[Ed Carr]

Marc, you be careful fooling with dat voodoo mon-:grin:

 

[satcom]

We had a few fortune 500 companies fll in hook line and sinker, the main reason they bought the bate was, these companies have ligit engineers front for them, and they market it in a ton of referals, which if you took the time to check, would give you caution warnings, as to any savings. The companies just wrote off the loss, and founf better contractors for future projects.

 

[Faulting]

I actually looked into this some today. I tried to call the main contact listed on the website and couldn't get an answer. I have a customer with a really large house and he thought this would help on starting his four condensing units and other things in the home.
The online demo shows this unit correcting the powerfactor in a single family dwelling from .059 to .98. I agree with the "voodoo" theory.

 

[charlie b]

The amount of current difference just seemed WAY too much for me. They might have been using a very special motor built for demonstration purposes only . . . .

I agree completely. This is snake oil with a fresh coat of paint. The real shame is that it is going to make its owner a lot of money, long before the customers realize it is not saving them money.

 

[480sparky]

I agree completely. This is snake oil with a fresh coat of paint. The real shame is that it is going to make its owner a lot of money, long before the customers realize it is not saving them money.

And when they do figure it out, the person with all their money will be sipping pi?a coladas, sitting on the beach in a country that does not have an extradition treaty with the U.S.

 

[brian john]

a contractor i work for is trying to get a contract w/ a city to have units like these installed on every home there. it sounds like he's getting close. pop. is around 300k. should be plenty of work.

Until I see hard evidence by an independent agency/testing company, I believe you boss is a much a crook as the manufactures, unless he is unaware of the hoodoo voodoo.....In which case he should REALLY get educated. And if you get involved....Well you only have your self respect to lose.

 

[dduffee260]

I know of one " energy saving device" that is a sure fire, no fail way to save energy. If everyone were to use it there is no telling how much energy savings there would be. It is called a light switch.

 

[LarryFine]

Hmmm. What about dark switches? Or heavy ones?

 

[satcom]

I know of one " energy saving device" that is a sure fire, no fail way to save energy. If everyone were to use it there is no telling how much energy savings there would be. It is called a light switch.

You make a good point, if everyone just did some of the easy things, like shuting off switches, and using energy wise replacement lamps, and fixtures.