ENFORCEMENT - Building Codes

[jmellc]

And we wonder why people go off grid?

 

[mtnelect]

I do inspections for the CSLB. It has become a "Cottage" business for me, just as I finish one report, I am called on to do another. Then the same cases get escalated to the Administrative Law Court where I have to testify. This getting to be a full-time job.

 

[jmellc]

I would like to take all the contractors on here who consistently bad mouth Electrical Inspectors out with me for one day of inspections.
You can experience the lack of knowledge, poor craftsmanship, lying and shenanigans that goes on daily.

I don't doubt it. But I could tell you about the local inspector who wouldn't call me to meet him on a jobsite, would find a minor issue or 2 but not even leave a list like he's supposed to. He would tell the customer to tell me. I would fix what I was told & call him back. He would fail it again, saying I didn't do the 2nd item. I complained about no list & he said "I told the customer". Again, very minor issues. Or he showed up and left because I wasn't there. Customer doesn't speak our language and memories are about as clear as mud, attention spans even muddier. Yet he didn't mind coming by my house and asking to use my microwave to heat his lunch. He did same with customers. One customer nearly had to drive him out of her house; he wanted to stay and chat forever. I sure wouldn't call him overworked.

After I closed my business, I didn't pull permits for quite some time. Pulled one for employer, saw online that this man was the assigned inspector. I called his cell and office phones, left several messages on both. No reply after 3 days. I called chief inspector, asking about him. He blew up at me shouting "He's retired!!.". I went silent a moment, then asked "If he's retired, why is your system still assigning jobs to him? Why does he still have 2 active phone numbers?" He calmed down a little and gave me another inspector's name he was assigning it to. The few other times I spoke with him, he wasn't much better. No one I knew could stand dealing with him. I could give a dozen more examples.

Or I could tell you about the inspector who failed a sawpole we installed. Boss called to inquire. He hemmed & hawed, then got chief inspector on the line. He did the same, then finally said "we just don't like the way it looks, there is no code violation." True, it was an ugly creation. We had a call to install an above ground pole, then got there and found it was underground feed. Scrounged material from truck to swap it over and used it a few times before this. Was actually convertible feed with moving a few items as needed. Ugly yes, but nothing unsafe or illegal about it.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is why my respect for authority is only moderate on my best day and it is constantly slipping. And I know a good number of good people from your state who left because of it being a virtual police state in many ways.

 

[ptonsparky]

We‘ve all been here long enough to know we have good, middle of the road, and bad on both sides of the debate.

 

[coffeebean]

I don't doubt it. But I could tell you about the local inspector who wouldn't call me to meet him on a jobsite, would find a minor issue or 2 but not even leave a list like he's supposed to. He would tell the customer to tell me. I would fix what I was told & call him back. He would fail it again, saying I didn't do the 2nd item. I complained about no list & he said "I told the customer". Again, very minor issues. Or he showed up and left because I wasn't there. Customer doesn't speak our language and memories are about as clear as mud, attention spans even muddier. Yet he didn't mind coming by my house and asking to use my microwave to heat his lunch. He did same with customers. One customer nearly had to drive him out of her house; he wanted to stay and chat forever. I sure wouldn't call him overworked.

After I closed my business, I didn't pull permits for quite some time. Pulled one for employer, saw online that this man was the assigned inspector. I called his cell and office phones, left several messages on both. No reply after 3 days. I called chief inspector, asking about him. He blew up at me shouting "He's retired!!.". I went silent a moment, then asked "If he's retired, why is your system still assigning jobs to him? Why does he still have 2 active phone numbers?" He calmed down a little and gave me another inspector's name he was assigning it to. The few other times I spoke with him, he wasn't much better. No one I knew could stand dealing with him. I could give a dozen more examples.

Or I could tell you about the inspector who failed a sawpole we installed. Boss called to inquire. He hemmed & hawed, then got chief inspector on the line. He did the same, then finally said "we just don't like the way it looks, there is no code violation." True, it was an ugly creation. We had a call to install an above ground pole, then got there and found it was underground feed. Scrounged material from truck to swap it over and used it a few times before this. Was actually convertible feed with moving a few items as needed. Ugly yes, but nothing unsafe or illegal about it.

Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. This is why my respect for authority is only moderate on my best day and it is constantly slipping. And I know a good number of good people from your state who left because of it being a virtual police state in many ways.

I know a number of people who will never set foot in good ol NC

 

[ramsy]

I do inspections for the CSLB. It has become a "Cottage" business for me, just as I finish one report, I am called on to do another. Then the same cases get escalated to the Administrative Law Court where I have to testify. This getting to be a full-time job.

Did not realize CSLB does this.

Periodically read CSLB licensing & advertising violations after each sting project is published, but never read about catching code violations.

Thought construction defects & occupancy hazards were only caught by Fire-marshal & insurance investigations.

Sounds like good work. Do they need more help?

 

[mtnelect]

Did not realize CSLB does this.

Periodically read CSLB licensing & advertising violations after each sting project is published, but never read about catching code violations.

Thought construction defects & occupancy hazards were only caught by Fire-marshal & insurance investigations.

Sounds like good work. Do they need more help?

Yes ... California has very strict enforcement of their contacting laws, as compared to other states. The local AHJ do not have the experienced staff to deal with the new the California Energy Commission requirements that require specialized equipment to test compliance for HERS.

 

[jmellc]

I know a number of people who will never set foot in good ol NC

I know a number of people who will never set foot in good ol NC

Granted. I should also have noted you were right about the slop out there. I've seen a lot of garbage out there that people wouldn't pay to fix.

 

[Fred B]

Granted. I should also have noted you were right about the slop out there. I've seen a lot of garbage out there that people wouldn't pay to fix.

See a lot too. Get a lot of "the lights come on so what's the problem?" from them. Came across one once that was only just one little small load away from setting the whole house on fire. Burns on framing all over the house from K&T failure from shoddy alterations.

 

[James L]

I would like to take all the contractors on here who consistently bad mouth Electrical Inspectors out with me for one day of inspections.
You can experience the lack of knowledge, poor craftsmanship, lying and shenanigans that goes on daily.

In the Kansas City area, there seems to have been a snowball or reciprocity. We have no state anything. Every municipality is on its own.

Craftsmanship here has been atrocious all the way back as far as 1890. I've worked on a lot of houses of all ages, and seen wretched work in every one it seems

So we have inspectors who don't really know codes like they should. But maybe the work just doesn't pass the eye test. So they'll say they want something fixed. Since the hack "craftsmen" don't really know codes, they can't argue. So they acquiesce and appease the inspector.

Then all the hacks learn what every so-and-so is looking for, and makes sure they take care of those pet issues, and know-nothing inspector passed it.

Recently a few of the municipalities have been hiring real electricians to do the electrical inspection, real plumbers to do the plumbing inspection, and real carpenters to do framing inspections. And in those places the hack craftsman are having fits because the inspectors are coming with better understanding.

 

[rc/retired]

Recently a few of the municipalities have been hiring real electricians to do the electrical inspection, real plumbers to do the plumbing inspection, and real carpenters to do framing inspections. And in those places the hack craftsman are having fits because the inspectors are coming with better understanding.

Yay!

 

[garbo]

I would like to take all the contractors on here who consistently bad mouth Electrical Inspectors out with me for one day of inspections.
You can experience the lack of knowledge, poor craftsmanship, lying and shenanigans that goes on daily.

I never had a problem with inspectors in my large city and medium to large townships. The little hick town that had the only single person be the only electrician in town & only inspector & issuer of electrical license were difficult to deal with. They had there own unwritten rules. 99 % of inspectors would rather answer questions on the phone then having you fail and wasting their valuable time. We had a pool company perform two days of work on indoor handicapped swimming pool. The guy never replaced the copper bonding wire to the wheel chair ramp he removed so inspection did not pass. I know the inspector and told him that I had nothing to do with such a serious violation. He let us send two pictures of the newly installed copper Bonding wire and let them reopen pool to handicapped kids that used it for much needed physical therapy. On larger jobs I always had another e!ectrician do a walk thru and look for any things that might have been missed or possible code violations. One of the inspectors at an IAEI class told us that some small towns allow anybody to get a general contractor license without taking a test and the can pull an electrical permit for the house,garage or barn they are building. Inspector ends up failing job numerous times and becomes a teacher to them. Hold inspectors & teachers in high regard.

 

[kwired]

Around here most building departments are under staffed. The fees that they get from permits although they're often very high they aren't enough to hire the needed number of staff. Then you have the taxpayers complaining about their exorbitant property taxes and they don't want to spend more on the building department. I recently paid $181 for a permit to replace a hot water heater which is ridiculous.

181 just for the permit to replace a water heater is reason why many such replacements likely never have a permit filed for such activity. What are the chances of being caught not filing said permit? When you sell the place it still has a water heater like any information on file possibly says it does. If adding a second one you may have more risk of some conflicting information though.

 

[readydave8]

Water heater nameplate includes manufacture date

Doubt that many HI's would research permits for this

 

[kwired]

Do you take into account when an inspector has to do a re-inspection because there is a violation?

Electrical permit/inspections here have "reinspection fees", and a second reinspection fee is higher than the first fee is.

 

[kwired]

I would like to take all the contractors on here who consistently bad mouth Electrical Inspectors out with me for one day of inspections.
You can experience the lack of knowledge, poor craftsmanship, lying and shenanigans that goes on daily.

Like any profession there is good and bad people in that profession. I try not to paint with a wide brush when talking about EI's. I've seen some that are very knowledgeable about code and electrical installs and some that tend to make up their own rules. Haven't personally encountered any that simply don't belong in such a position at all but have read about some of them.

 

[kwired]

Then we have the homeowners who fire the contractor after the rough has passed and do a change of contractor to "self" and hire a handyman to do the finish work.

That's not supposed to happen here on construction of a new home, an addition or remodel it could though. They used to let owner wire his own new home but several years ago they took a good hard look at wording and changed this without even changing any wording in the law. It is not the owners primary residence if it is a brand new home being constructed was what they took a good hard look at. They were getting tired of being a "how to" service and coming back multiple times to these new homeowner installs. Now the only homeowner wiring permits that get approved is for things like remodels or additions to an existing owner's home but not a totally new home. Going to be harder to stop those as it would require getting changes in wording of the laws, and would need to go through state legislation process to do so.

 

[mtnelect]

In the Kansas City area, there seems to have been a snowball or reciprocity. We have no state anything. Every municipality is on its own.

Craftsmanship here has been atrocious all the way back as far as 1890. I've worked on a lot of houses of all ages, and seen wretched work in every one it seems

So we have inspectors who don't really know codes like they should. But maybe the work just doesn't pass the eye test. So they'll say they want something fixed. Since the hack "craftsmen" don't really know codes, they can't argue. So they acquiesce and appease the inspector.

Then all the hacks learn what every so-and-so is looking for, and makes sure they take care of those pet issues, and know-nothing inspector passed it.

Recently a few of the municipalities have been hiring real electricians to do the electrical inspection, real plumbers to do the plumbing inspection, and real carpenters to do framing inspections. And in those places the hack craftsman are having fits because the inspectors are coming with better understanding.

In California the only real inspectors are in the commercial side. On the residential side they use "Combination" inspectors, that will pass about anything.

 

[letgomywago]

That's not supposed to happen here on construction of a new home, an addition or remodel it could though. They used to let owner wire his own new home but several years ago they took a good hard look at wording and changed this without even changing any wording in the law. It is not the owners primary residence if it is a brand new home being constructed was what they took a good hard look at. They were getting tired of being a "how to" service and coming back multiple times to these new homeowner installs. Now the only homeowner wiring permits that get approved is for things like remodels or additions to an existing owner's home but not a totally new home. Going to be harder to stop those as it would require getting changes in wording of the laws, and would need to go through state legislation process to do so.

The thing is I'd totally want to be able to do every trade on a new house I could build in the future. I've done some in every trade but that isn't the norm. If I lived there I'd do whatever it took to get a shed build as a dwelling then do the rest of the house from there myself if I didn't have contractor registration there. Or I'd get set up as an llc with a GC license there just to do my one house.

 

[kwired]

The thing is I'd totally want to be able to do every trade on a new house I could build in the future. I've done some in every trade but that isn't the norm. If I lived there I'd do whatever it took to get a shed build as a dwelling then do the rest of the house from there myself if I didn't have contractor registration there. Or I'd get set up as an llc with a GC license there just to do my one house.

You still wouldn't be able to wire a new home on the same property AFAIK. Attach it to your existing home and it is an addition though.