Enforcement of Electrical Licensing Laws

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San -Brooke

San -Brooke

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This post is kind of a survey as to what each States Electrical Licensing requirements are and how it is being enforced so if any willing participants would like to post this information it would be greatly appreciated.
 
San -Brooke said:
This post is kind of a survey as to what each States Electrical Licensing requirements are and how it is being enforced so if any willing participants would like to post this information it would be greatly appreciated.
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Enforcement? I hear about it. They may check for licenses on jobs that are inspected, but turn someone in for doing work with no license...no enforcement.
 
A few days ago, I was looking up my own records (Washington State) for any continuing education credits I have achieved this cycle towards my Electrical Administrator license. While going through the license lookup process, I stumbled upon the option of sorting the names of licensed personnel by whether or not they had been issued violations over the past 6 years. Just for the sake of curiosity, I read a few records of issued violations. Some had to do with performing electrical work, or offering to perform electrical work, without a license. Others had to do with working outside the scope of the license. There were other types of violations as well. What I infer from this is that our state does enforce the licensing laws. I cannot tell from this source how rigorously the state pursues potential violators, nor what percentage of persons working without license gets caught. So this can only be a partial ansewer for you.
 
ptonsparky said:
Enforcement? I hear about it. They may check for licenses on jobs that are inspected, but turn someone in for doing work with no license...no enforcement.
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Maybe you have an inspector that is looking the other way in some cases? Can't say I have seen much of that myself - regarding work that requires a permit anyway, and considering who is on site doing electrical work when the inspector shows up.

I used to get asked for my license or apprentice card when I had those, usually early in a new license period just to see if I renewed.

I have never been asked to see my contractors license, they know if I don't have one I can't get a permit.
 
San -Brooke said:
This post is kind of a survey as to what each States Electrical Licensing requirements are and how it is being enforced so if any willing participants would like to post this information it would be greatly appreciated.
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It's really not that simple here in Gerogia. We do have a state requirement to have a license to operate as an electrical contractor.

At the local level you are required to have a state license to get a business license. At the local level they decide what types of work requires a permit and this can vary.

New construction residential and even commercial remodeling are regulated but a lot of residential remodeling is pretty much on the honor system . Some is done by licensed professionals and some under the table.

There is no real witch hunt to find these people doing small un-permitted jobs and maybe that's how it should be. I wish people would be more carefull with who they hire but I don't want to live in a police state.
 
growler said:
It's really not that simple here in Gerogia. We do have a state requirement to have a license to operate as an electrical contractor.

At the local level you are required to have a state license to get a business license. At the local level they decide what types of work requires a permit and this can vary.

New construction residential and even commercial remodeling are regulated but a lot of residential remodeling is pretty much on the honor system . Some is done by licensed professionals and some under the table.

There is no real witch hunt to find these people doing small un-permitted jobs and maybe that's how it should be. I wish people would be more carefull with who they hire but I don't want to live in a police state.
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I agree with that and it is the way it mostly works here as well.

State law says something to the effect that a person shall not design or install wiring for another person/entity unless they are licensed to do so. That means even if the task at hand doesn't require a permit or an inspection, legally you still need to be a licensed person, or under the supervision of a licensed person via the apprentice procedures. We don't want to live in a police state, but we still need people to be as safe as possible as well.

Should your installation injure or kill someone and you were not licensed, prosecutors have more on their side of the case because of what the law says, and it will not matter what you or even those that paid you did or didn't know at the time.
 
WV requires you to have your license on your person (and it must be a WV license) when you are working. I've never been asked to see mine, but I do know of jobs that have been shut down where there were people working as electricians without licenses.

Just north of where I live is PA which does not have state wide licensing. PA contractors are a prime target for the Fire Marshal's license checks for that reason. Also some IBEW workers do not believe they need WV licenses, same story, job shut down.
 
Enforcement of Electrical Licensing Laws

Google New Hampshire Union Leader dated 03, 27, 2014; on the front is an article about an unlicensed contractor using another master electrician's license to perform installations. he is now currently under arrest and in jail awaiting trial.
 
Michigan

Must be licensed electrical contractor to pull permits and charge for electrical work.

Above must have a licensed master electrician in their employ.

Work must be done either by a licensed journeyman or a registered apprentice working under the direct supervision of the journeyman. We have a 1:1 and 2:1 apprentice to journeyman ratio, depending on the job.

Every code cycle, all journeyman and masters must go through a code upgrade class covering the Michigan Electrical Code (Ch 8 of the building code) and the changes in the NEC. The class is 16 hours long and costs about 150 bucks.

The AHJ has the right to terminate work. If the person refuses, the AHJ can get a judge to have the cops come in and make sure work is terminated.

There are NO electrical laws on farms. Article 547 is not enforced in Michigan. That means agricultural buildings need no permits, no licensed anything and they don't even have to follow the NEC.

Michigan does not recognize licenses or registrations from other states. Journeymen from other states have to register as an apprentice and work with a Michigan journeyman.
 
K8MHZ said:
Michigan...


The AHJ has the right to terminate work. If the person refuses, the AHJ can get a judge to have the cops come in and make sure work is terminated.

There are NO electrical laws on farms. Article 547 is not enforced in Michigan. That means agricultural buildings need no permits, no licensed anything and they don't even have to follow the NEC.

Michigan does not recognize licenses or registrations from other states. Journeymen from other states have to register as an apprentice and work with a Michigan journeyman.
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I don't know just how much authority the inspectors have at forcing work to stop or even calling in the cops to remove workers, I know they can ask them to leave but not sure just how much further they can go from there. That said they still can order power to be disconnected (by POCO) if they feel something is not safe, and that I imagine can also be because non qualified people are working on the project.


Wiring for agricultural purposes has always been exempt from requiring inspections here. Agriculture is the single largest industry in the state and that is just the way it has always been. That doesn't mean it is legal to wire for someone else if you are not licensed- even in agriculture, but there is seldom any prosecution for breaking that law. I don't know what happens when there is an electrocution in those places, but imagine it is up the the family of the victim if they want to go after someone, but at same time the owner or the victim themselves are just as responsible for poor wiring as the original non qualified installer.

There have been some POCO's that will not connect a service over 250 volts without an inspection and that has helped clean up some things in those instances, but only at the initial install, once that first inspection is done the inspector never comes again for any additional work.

There has been talk of some changes and irrigation and grain storage were proposed to be included in items that require inspection but so far nothing has been changed, but I wouldn't be surprised if someday we don't see that happen. Farming operations are getting larger as it is not worth costs to do these operations on a small scale any more. That means equipment and facilities are getting larger and requiring more power then ever. More 480 volt services are popping up at these sites then ever before. Not that 120/240 isn't hazardous but 277 to ground is not what most typical farmers or handymen need to be playing with anyway. Many seem to find they don't know what they are doing especially if it involves three phase and if they try to fix something themselves it usually makes things worse in the long run and they often just call a pro right away.

Farmers are good at taking covers off of things and then not replacing them - eventually the cover is lost and then you have exposed live components, and is often in the outdoors or other harsh environment as well.:(
 
mjf said:
Shoot, we can't even get a county wide license on the books here. We finally got the law to pass, only to have it rescinded before it even got off the ground.:slaphead:
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Im also in NY....Licensing only in larger cities upstate. There is some county wide licensing downstate. Some upstate cities have their own electrical inspection program, but most use third pary so the license is kinda a joke anyway.

I am also in Wa state.... I do most of my work there in Seattle and I have never been asked for my card by seattle DPD when they come to inspect. I hear labor & industries which handles non incorporated areas can be a little more fascist. Interestingly, to be an electrical contracting company and pull permits, one only needs an electrical administrator on staff, so you can be an electrical contractor without having any electricians to do the work. I have heard of some guys working and running a business for years without an electricians license like that (administrator is just a test, no experience required).
 
In my area here in VA, a contractor with a masters card, can pull permits and work anybody on his jobs, ultimately he is responsible for what happens, but does have effect on wages of people that put effort in obtaining lisc. Ag is exempt from any inspections. My WV work requires 1-masters per 2-journeyman or app. on job, and I have been card checked on state jobs, but residential is not enforced.
 
Shanky said:
In my area here in VA, a contractor with a masters card, can pull permits and work anybody on his jobs, ultimately he is responsible for what happens, but does have effect on wages of people that put effort in obtaining lisc. Ag is exempt from any inspections. My WV work requires 1-masters per 2-journeyman or app. on job, and I have been card checked on state jobs, but residential is not enforced.
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It is my understanding that in WV a master or journeyman can work unsupervised, but that an apprentice must be supervised by a master or journeyman. There can be no more that 3 apprentices per supervisor.

87CSR2 -- Title 87 Legislative Rule State Fire Marshal -- Series 2 Electrical Licensing Rules
87-2-2. Definitions
2.8. "Supervise or Supervision" means the drafting, coordinating and directing of the design, layout and load calculations of electrical systems. It is the intent of the word "supervise or supervision" that electrical design, layout and calculations be done by a Master Electrician. Supervision does not require that a master electrician to be physically present with a journeyman electrician during the electrical work. Apprentice electricians shall be supervised by a Master or Journeyman electrician. A Master or Journeyman electrician may not supervise more than three apprentice electricians on the job site.
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Again in WV. I never had any problem as journeyman pulling permits and submitting designs to the local permitting authority. Perhaps it was because I was working for a school system that only had job grade levels for Apprentices and Journeymen.
 
roger said:
Start at page 10 of this newsletter for some cases in NC.

Roger
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Hi Roger, I like reading the newsletter to see if there is someone I know in there. For every one else NC doesn't play around as you can see by the newsletter. Have seen several that were brought before the board and disciplined with a suspension of their license only to be caught again. They were taken to court and got jail time over it.
 
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